Working Group Minutes/MWG 2017-09-22

From OpenStreetMap Foundation


  • Steve Friedl (SJFriedl)
  • Michael Spreng (datendelphin)
  • Ilya Zverev (Zverik)
  • Mohamat Lamine (Lamine_Ndiaye)
  • Paul Norman (pnorman)
  • Jonathan Witcoski (jonwit)

Open issues

  • E-Mail rejected as spam on
  • Member self service area
  • Membership fee waiver program

Welcome message

We have implemented the message. It was successfully sent to the address from a test user. This message will now be sent to all new osmf users. The message can be viewed here: Welcome to the OpenStreetMap Foundation

Fee waiver program

We reviewed of the new text. As next step we will consult with the members via the osmf-talk mailinglist.

Membership drive

We currently have not much resources to support the membership drive. We encourage any effort to increase membership, and also encourage those people to work out of the MWG to do so, in order to have a central point for action and communication.


22:03 < datendelphin> Let's get started.
22:04  * SJFriedl has reviewed both sets of minutes and approves.
22:04 < datendelphin> 1. Approval of minutes
22:05 < Zverik> minutes from 31.08 are bascially a chat log, seems ok to me
22:06 < datendelphin> 2. welcome message
22:06 < datendelphin> Has everyone received the test message via the mwg address?
22:06 < datendelphin> Did it look ok in your favourite mail program?
22:08 < SJFriedl> This sounds familiar, looking
22:08 < pnorman> Looked okay here. I did notice some formatting issues. This was with the gmail app on a 5.5" class display
22:08 < SJFriedl> what was the subject line?
22:08 < datendelphin> Subject: Welcome to the OpenStreetMap Foundation
22:09 < SJFriedl> ok, found it, thank you.
22:10 < SJFriedl> it's functional but not pretty in Microsoft Outlook, but the link to "show in browser" works great
22:10 < datendelphin> formatting is difficult, because there is no direct access to css from civicrm.
22:11 < datendelphin> I had to rely ond the civicrm buildt in formatting. It looks ok in Thunderbird.
22:11 < SJFriedl> Sure, I don't think it's worth the trouble to try and be too clever here.  It's fine.
22:12 < datendelphin> So, the question is, should we go live?
22:12 < pnorman> looked good enough to go live to me
22:12 < Zverik> I'd add a footer to that message, but overall it's good
22:13 < datendelphin> What would you like in the footer?
22:13 < Zverik> like, "with love, members of OSMF"
22:13 < SJFriedl> so sweet :-)
22:13 < datendelphin> :) sounds good
22:14 < datendelphin> 3. Waiver program
22:15 < datendelphin> Should I post the current text again?
22:15 < pnorman> that'd be good, I just have it in email
22:15 < datendelphin> People may apply through the fee waiver program for an associate
22:15 < datendelphin> membership, if paying the fee would constitute an unreasonable burden to
22:15 < datendelphin> the member because of lack of a suitable money transfer facility.
22:15 < datendelphin> Associate members who have joined under the membership fee waiver
22:15 < datendelphin> programme have the same rights as any associate member and the fact that
22:15 < datendelphin> they have joined under the membership fee waiver programme will not be
22:15 < datendelphin> public.
22:15 < datendelphin> Lack of suitable money transfer
22:15 < datendelphin> The main money transfer facilities are paypal and bank transfer to the
22:15 < datendelphin> UK bank account. To verify if no suitable money transfer facility is
22:15 < datendelphin> available the membership working groups relies on publicly available
22:15 < datendelphin> information from paypal and about political embargos.
22:15 < datendelphin> Contribute something else of value
22:15 < datendelphin> We require that the applicant is an active mapper: The applicant has
22:15 < datendelphin> edited the Project in any three calendar months from the last 12 months
22:15 < datendelphin> (i.e. there is a demonstrated interest over time).
22:15 < datendelphin> Apply
22:15 < datendelphin> Applications can be submitted here
22:15 < datendelphin> Basis for the fee waiver program is the board resolution from 2014-10-14
22:15 < datendelphin> and the subsequent vote at the annual general meeting.
22:17 < pnorman> looks good. The next step would be either to send it for consultation with the membership or send it to the board for approval as a policy
22:17 < SJFriedl> We took away the notion of hardship, as I recall. 
22:17 < SJFriedl> but we can add it later
22:19 -!- jonwit [~oftc-webi@2601:141:100:3746:35b7:2c4:dd03:13c6] has joined #osmf-membership
22:19 < datendelphin> ok, should we post it to talk@ and see what we get?
22:20 < pnorman> osmf-talk@
22:20 < jonwit> hello, sorry for the late arrival. this is jonathan witcoski
22:20 < datendelphin> I would write soume introducturi sentances stating that this is a starting point, hope for expansion
22:21 < pnorman> In terms of framing it, I'd point out that a) We're starting with lack of a suitable money transfer facility because this is much easier 
                 to evaluate, and it gets us experience in the program. b) We wanted a definition of something of value which didn't require subjective 
                 evaluation, and used the definition for "active mapper" from the contributor terms.
22:21 < datendelphin> Hi jonwit We are discussing the waiver program.
22:22 < datendelphin> yes good framing
22:23 < jonwit> fantastic i agree with this. as for active mapping do you think a user account and one contribution is enough?
22:24 < datendelphin> jonwit: it is defined in the program as: The applicant has edited the Project in any three calendar months from the last 12 months
22:24 < jonwit> fantastic thank you for that definition
22:26 < datendelphin> I had a mail exchange with Mohamet, and he outlined the Senegal situation
22:26 < SJFriedl> I saw that discussion; and interesting twist to the "lack of money transfer" circumstance
22:26 < datendelphin> Seems like his internet is not available right now, I had hoped he would join us
22:27 < pnorman> We could add the case where the money transfer fees of all the available options exceed that of the membership fee
22:27 < datendelphin> yes, or we could institute proxy paiment
22:28 < datendelphin> That we have a trusted party locally who brokers the membership payments
22:28 < pnorman> I'm iffy on if that's something we could implement, it might have to go to the treasurer. 
22:28 < SJFriedl> "Trust" is such a curious word in this context :-)
22:29 < datendelphin> Of course this will require the support of the board, maybe even a resolution
22:29 < jonwit> i don't think we should worry about finding "
22:29 < jonwit> agents"
22:29 < SJFriedl> this has all kinds of "what could go wrong?" written all over it.
22:30 < datendelphin> I would expect this broker to be a local chapter.
22:31 < jonwit> finding willing members in africa and other underrepresented countries/areas should be our first priority since the number of members 
                outside europe and north america is less than a dozen right now
22:31 < SJFriedl> wow
22:32 < pnorman> None of our local chapters exist in places where there is a lack of a suitable money transfer facility.
22:32 < pnorman> Or at least, a systematic lack, although there may be some exceptions.
22:33 < datendelphin> That's true. Could be an incentive for local groups to be a local chapter.
22:34 < pnorman> I think we should defer this issue and go forward with what we have now, rather than hold it up.
22:34 < datendelphin> of course
22:34 < datendelphin> I just wanted to start it as a separate "issue"
22:37 < datendelphin> ok, should we proceed to 4. membership drive?
22:37 < jonwit> yes lets move on
22:39 < datendelphin> We were informed by Mikel about the membership drive, which is starting today, if I understood correctly
22:39 < pnorman> mikel sent out an email on the 19th. It's not starting today, that schedule was his idea which was overly optimistic
22:41 < pnorman> At the board meeting we didn't tie its scheduling in with fee waiver
22:42 < datendelphin> so we will try to move forward with the waiver program.
22:42 < jonwit> is there going to be a membership goal? like one of those cool thermometers that fill up when we reach 100 new members?
22:43 < pnorman> I don't really have any more info than the email about the membership drive, so I'm not sure what we should be doing.
22:45 < jonwit> yes, i read the email. in summary they will be posting thru various social media and internet posts the benefits of membership. For this I 
                think they just wanted input from us on what they should include.
22:45 < datendelphin> I think we can't do anything, realistically. When looking how long we are working on the waiver program already, we will not be able 
                      to contribute anything else of value soon
22:46 < datendelphin> Of course we will be prepared to answer any questions regarding the membership arising from the drive, but that is business as usual.
22:47 < pnorman> I'd have rather that the people interested in running it had worked through the MWG and increased our capacity to handle stuff to take it 
22:50 < jonwit> any effort to increase membership should be encouraged
22:50 < datendelphin> of course. And it is one of tha stated goals of this working group
22:51 -!- Lamine_Ndiaye [~oftc-webi@] has joined #osmf-membership
22:51 < datendelphin> but there is not enough people actually working on it. We are still very slow
22:51 < Lamine_Ndiaye> hello everybody
22:52 < datendelphin> Hi Mohamet
22:52 < SJFriedl> welcome!
22:52 < datendelphin> good to see you. Glad to see that it worked.
22:53 < jonwit> welcome
22:53 < Lamine_Ndiaye> excuse, for this delay but I had difficulties to join the meeting
22:54 < pnorman> Should we go back to the case of where money transfer facilities exist, but they're not suitable because they're too expensive?
22:54 < datendelphin> So we encourage any effort to increase membership, and also encourage those people to work out of the MWG to do so, in order to have 
                      a central point for action and communication
22:55 < datendelphin> yes, I would like to go back to the money transfer issue, if that is ok
22:55 < jonwit> fine by me
22:56 < datendelphin> Lamine_Ndiaye: we have already discussed the waiver program, and we would like to hear your opinion
22:56 < datendelphin> maybe how the MWG can enable people from Senegal to become members, or to grow the OSMF membership from Senegal
22:58 < Lamine_Ndiaye> ok I see that you started to talk about the means of payment, indeed in Senegal there is a worry since to set up a paypal payment it 
                       takes a bank account and the charges related to this are more expensive than membership itself
23:00 < datendelphin> So people do not have bank accounts usually. They only use cash?
23:01 < Lamine_Ndiaye> and as I said to micheal there are two possibilities: the first is to collect the money from the members who want to join the 
                       foundation and to send a collective sending to the account of the foundation, the other would be to create a unique paypal account 
                       for membership in Senegal and people pay the money to the person responsible for this account
23:02 < datendelphin> But how would they pay the person responsible? Do you have means inside Senegal to easily transfer money?
23:02 < Lamine_Ndiaye> there are people who have a bank account sometimes it does not perform international transfers
23:04 < datendelphin> I think a unique paypal account would be no issue for the OSMF. The members email shound not be tied to the paypal account email
23:04 < Lamine_Ndiaye> we are a community that is in the process of becoming an association and the actors know each other practically all in one could 
                       during our periodic meetings to collect collections and then make the transfer to the foundation
23:05 < SJFriedl> Like a one-time transfer "This is for all 7 of us" kind of thing?
23:06 < Lamine_Ndiaye> I think that would be the ideal indeed if one can open a unique account was made easier things
23:07 < pnorman> Without a local chapter I don't think having a local organization is an option, and the same would apply to most countries where this is 
                 an issue
23:08 < jonwit> If you can do something like a personal handoff of cash (electronically or in person) it would be a fantastic way of paying however this is 
                more excessive than just a simple paypal payment 
23:09 < Lamine_Ndiaye> why ask the interested countries to constitute themselves in chapter we in any case one would like to become a chapter of the 
23:10 < datendelphin> pnorman: If they do it self organized, it is not such a problem to accept it. The problem is of course that it does not scale.
23:11 < Lamine_Ndiaye> it is true but since there are constraints we try to see the options available to us and also we could share the transfer costs 
                       between members or with the foundation
23:13 < jonwit> This all sounds fantastic Lamine_Ndiaye.  but as datendelphin mentions individuals who want to be apart of the organization do not have 
                this option in your case.
23:14 < Lamine_Ndiaye> just a question about how much the membership fee is to be a member of the foundation
23:15 < jonwit> £15 per year
23:15 < datendelphin> jonwit: he means it will be more expensive with the charges. Which means it is a different price depending on who pays the charges, 
                      the OSMF or they themself
23:16 < jonwit> understood
23:16 < Lamine_Ndiaye> in fact it is a community not yet an organization but it will constitute a means of facilitation for any person residing in Senegal 
                       and who wants to be a member of the foundation without being part of the future organization
23:16 < datendelphin> Currently we accept payments which are slightly below 15 because of unknown charges that get deducted along the way
23:20 < datendelphin> OK, I think we should wrap up the discussion. Thanks Lamine_Ndiaye for the insights. They are valuable.
23:20 < pnorman> datendelphin: will you be doing the sending to osmf-talk@?
23:20 < datendelphin> yes tomorrow
23:21 < Lamine_Ndiaye> ok no worries I think for our case we can go up to 1- and the transfer fee will be included is about 12000 CFA and that is reasonable
23:21 < pnorman> k. I can help if you need it, I just don't want to send it with the other stuff that I've got out right now
23:22 < datendelphin> two short points for 5. Any Other Business
23:22 < jonwit> Fantastic thank you for coming. I have nothing else
23:22 < datendelphin> I processed the July and August payments
23:22 < datendelphin> July somehow was forgotten, but Frederik provided me with the bank statements on request
23:23 < Lamine_Ndiaye> thank you for your patience but here the connection is good. See you
23:23 < datendelphin> and I also did the adding/removal on the osmf-talk list up to Sep. 6th
23:23 < datendelphin> Thanks everyone. Bye :)
23:24 < jonwit> bye
23:24 -!- jonwit [~oftc-webi@2601:141:100:3746:35b7:2c4:dd03:13c6] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:24 < SJFriedl> happy Friday!