Working Group Minutes/MWG 2017-08-31

From OpenStreetMap Foundation


  • Steve Friedl (SJFriedl)
  • Michael Spreng (datendelphin)
  • Ilya Zverev (Zverik)
  • Mohamat Lamine (Lamine_Ndiaye)

Open issues

  • E-Mail rejected as spam on
  • Member self service area
  • Welcome message to new members
  • Membership fee waiver program

Welcome message

Thanks to the CWG, we have a welcome message and will implement the automatic delivery of such a message in civicrm.

Fee waiver program

Drop financial hardship for now Only require mapper being active as "something else of value"


20:46 < datendelphin> ok, so let's get start
20:47 < datendelphin> Ilya, do you have a summary about "growing the membership" from last board meeting?
20:49 < datendelphin> My topic for this meeting would be the welcome message to new members:
20:50 < datendelphin> (you need to be logged in to see that page)
20:55 < SJFriedl> ah :-)
20:56 < SJFriedl> the whole page has a great vibe to it.
20:56 < datendelphin> I think so too. The CWG did a fine job
20:57 < SJFriedl> The first picture on the page is a little dark, but if that's the only complaint, they really did a fine job.
20:58 < datendelphin> Now I will try to put this into the civicrm system, to automate a mail that is sent about an hour after sign-up with this content
20:58 < datendelphin> and of course link to that page for later reference
20:58 < SJFriedl> should there be a login link on the page? or will it be made public?
20:59 < datendelphin> it will be made public
20:59 < SJFriedl> good good
21:00 < SJFriedl> do you have to be a member to attend a board meeting?
21:00 < SJFriedl> I don't think anybody checks?
21:00 < datendelphin> no you don't
21:04 < SJFriedl> routhly how many OSMF members do we have right now?
21:04 < datendelphin> ping Zverik 
21:05 < SJFriedl> he's with his children :-)
21:06 < datendelphin> obviously
21:06 < SJFriedl> so this is all managed in CivicCRM (membership)? 
21:06 < datendelphin> yes. I'm no expert, but it works well enough.
21:06 < SJFriedl> I know at some point in the past some of us signed NDAs that would grant access to some of this but I don't see that I ever got credentials. I'm not even sure that was the plan
21:06 < Zverik> I am back, for good :)
21:07 < datendelphin> No problem Zverik :)
21:07 < Zverik> We did not discuss growing the membership at the last meeting much
21:07 < Zverik> mostly remembered what we talked about at the local chapters workshop
21:08 < datendelphin> ok, so we haven't missed much. 
21:08 < Zverik> that we should ask people from more local communities about that :)
21:09 < datendelphin> So I propose that I configure civicrm to send that welcome message one hour after sign-up. I will do it first for the Membership - TEST category of members, and create a new test member to test it
21:10 < datendelphin> If that works, I will switch it to be sent for Normal and Associate Members
21:12 < datendelphin> Does everyone approve of the welcome message and the proposed course of action?
21:13 < Zverik> Just looked at the welcome page. Surprised for it to be so long :)
21:13 < Zverik> Needs proofreading, I can do that (but we'd better find somebody from UK :)
21:13 < SJFriedl> I've read it twice and don't see anything wrong with it.
21:13 < SJFriedl> (just got a phone call)
21:16 < Zverik> "Licencing", "helps us to" and other small things
21:16 < SJFriedl> I need to crank the font up: waiting on new glasses and I am having a hard time seeing.
21:16 < SJFriedl> Do we really use the term "Manifesto" ?
21:16 < datendelphin> ctrl-+
21:16 < SJFriedl> that's kind of a loaded word in the United States
21:17 < SJFriedl> scroll wheel on my mouse did the same thing
21:18 < SJFriedl> "Manifesto" is under the "Influence the direction of the project" section
21:18 < datendelphin> I'm not a native speaker, I don't know
21:19 < datendelphin> you can correct it directly I think?
21:19 < SJFriedl> "Candidate statements" would be more neutral
21:20 < SJFriedl> I can!
21:21 < Zverik> great
21:22 < datendelphin> Hi Mohamet
21:22 < Lamine_Ndiaye> Hello
21:23 < datendelphin> thanks for making it. We are currently discussing the welcome message to new osmf members
21:24 -!- Lamine_Ndiaye has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:25 < datendelphin> hmm looks like he has a shaky internet connection
21:25 < Zverik> I like the long page, because it gives an impression that joining osmf is really just the first step, and you can help with many things.
21:25 -!- Lamine_Ndiaye has joined #osmf-membership
21:26 < datendelphin> Yes I like it as well, and it is well structured, the most important at the top.
21:26 < SJFriedl> We should introduce ourselves: I'm Steve Friedl in Southern California USA
21:27 < datendelphin> And I'm Michael Spreng from Switzerland.
21:27  * Zverik is Ilya Zverev from Russia :)
21:28 < SJFriedl> I made a few very small wordsmithing edits and have saved the page.
21:28 < Lamine_Ndiaye> Hi, Mohamat Lamine
21:28 < Lamine_Ndiaye> From Senegal
21:28 < Lamine_Ndiaye> It's my first time to use irc
21:29 < SJFriedl> welcome!
21:31 < datendelphin> So can we wrap up the topic of the welcome message?
21:32 < SJFriedl> unless others have comments. I fixed "Licensing" per mention above
21:32 -!- Lamine_Ndiaye has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:34 < datendelphin> As the next topic I would suggest the membership fee waiver program
21:35 < datendelphin> We discussed my proposal last time.
21:36 < Zverik> could you post the link?
21:37  * datendelphin looking for it
21:38 < datendelphin>
21:39 < datendelphin> I think we should start with the lack of suitable money transfer facility, and use the paypal list of countries
21:40 < datendelphin> We haven't found anything good for defining financial hardship. So maybe we can get it off the ground for the one case, and initiate a discussion about the other part
21:42 < Zverik> Financial hardship is hard to define, maybe we should drop it
21:42 < SJFriedl> It's harder to define and easier to game
21:42 < Zverik> yup
21:42 < SJFriedl> how about we start with the money-transfer part and take it from there. We might find real use-cases offline 
                  (without advertising for them) that we might consider
21:43 < SJFriedl> but get some experience with the limited scope for now.
21:43 < datendelphin> yes, that's what I also have in mind.
21:44 < datendelphin> As for the "contribute something else of value", Paul proposed to just require an active mapper, according to the contributor terms
21:45 < SJFriedl> I think the discussion was something at least slight above being "just" a mapper, though I hate suggesting that being "just" a mapper is not a thing of value.
21:46 < datendelphin> The problem is, we can't find anything that really has value to the OSMF.
21:46 < SJFriedl> what constitues "active" ?
21:46 < datendelphin> quote from "a natural person (whether using a single or multiple accounts) who has edited the Project in any three calendar months from the last 12 months (i.e. there is a demonstrated interest over time)"
21:48 < SJFriedl> oh who can edit that? "Licence" is wrong in the title :-)
21:48 < datendelphin> I suggested some kind of essay, but realistically no one has even the time to read them, and surely not to distil something useful out of them
21:48 < SJFriedl> right, and what we we do, say "that's not a good enough essay"?
21:49 < SJFriedl> so maybe look at it from the other direction: what kind of possible abuse might we want to avoid?
21:49 < datendelphin> um licence is British English. Sorry, but OSM prefers British :)
21:50 < SJFriedl> oh, is that the British spelling?
21:50 < SJFriedl> ok, then for sure.
21:50 < datendelphin> yes
21:53 < datendelphin> Should I adapt the Fee waiver page accordingly? Then we can have another round by mail or at the next meeting
21:54 < SJFriedl> So yes, the financial hardship would go for now
21:55 < SJFriedl> and "be an active mapper" would be the criteria for support.
21:55 < datendelphin> yes
21:55 < SJFriedl> in practice this doesn't look like something is realy that subject to abuse. It's not like it's some kind of super exclusive club that people are desperate to get into.
21:57 < datendelphin> ok, any other business?
21:58 < SJFriedl> I don't remember anything else pending
21:59 < datendelphin> I would suggest formally make Mohamat member of the MWG, but maybe next time. I will try to figure out how he can take part in our meetings.
22:00 < SJFriedl> We're happy to have anybody who cares to help, right?
22:03 < datendelphin> yes :)
22:03 < datendelphin> So thanks to everyone, see you next time
22:03 < Zverik> yup\
22:03 < Zverik> thanks!
22:03 < SJFriedl> see ya!