Working Group Minutes/MWG 2016-08-03

From OpenStreetMap Foundation


  • Steve Friedl (SJFriedl)
  • Paul Norman (pnorman)
  • Clifford Snow (Glassman)
  • Michael Spreng (datendelphin)
  • Jonathan Witcoski (jonwit)
  • Ilya Zverev (Zverik)


Two members are missing.

Minutes from 2016-05-23 were accepted with three votes. email

Everyone gets emails sent to the MWG address. Most are not actionable: no decision on wire transfers yet, SOTM signups are not for MWG to deal with, and other issues require access to CiviCRM.

Google Forms

A member asked for a way to pay without filling in a Google Docs form. Turns out that for alternative payments one needs to fill one of two forms. It seems we don't have access to tables for these forms. We need to get rid of these forms, transferring them either to WordPress or to an external stand-alone web page, that sends a mail to MWG.

Ilya to check if it is possible to add these forms to's wordpress.

Also it's impossible for any member of MWG to check if the money from wire transfer have reached the OSMF account. When do we add a member to CiviCRM then?

Michael to talk to Frederik about the wire transfers.


Paul and Ilya have full CiviCRM access. To give it to people outside the board, we need some kind of NDA to sign, because of members' privacy and financial information.

Jonathan to prepare a NDA form.
Paul to ask LWG is the NDA form they're working on might apply to MWG.
Ilya to grant CiviCRM access to members who sign it.

Steve asked for read-only access, to not break anything accidentally. Perhaps Ilya should ask everyone which kind of access they want.

osmf-talk Mailing List

Since membership and subscription status for the osmf-talk@ mailing list are closely linked, MWG members should also be admins for that list. Some unsubscription inquiries are sent to the MWG address.

Paul to talk to admins and get himself and Ilya set as owners of osmf-talk list.

From that moment, osmf-talk@ subscribers management duty goes to MWG.

Ilya to update the list of MWG responsibilities.

Promoting membership at or after SOTM

There will be a table for joining OSMF. Maybe ask any of OSMF speakers to invite people to join the OSMF.

Maybe create a banner ad for joining OSMF, or mention it on SOTM or donation drive banners. Run it before the elections?


[23:00] <Zverik> Hi everyone
[23:01] <datendelphin> Hi
[23:01] <datendelphin> pnorman: Let's get started?
[23:01] <Zverik> Do we have an agenda?
[23:01] <pnorman> Anyone want to chair
[23:02] <Zverik> pnorman: I can try :)
[23:02] <Zverik> so... Who's present? I've seen pnorman and datendelphin already
[23:03] <Zverik> Glassman: jonwit: SJFriedl: ping
[23:03] * SJFriedl is Steve Friedl in Southern California USA
[23:03] <Glassman> hi everyone
[23:03] <jonwit> hello jonathan witcoski from Washington DC USA
[23:03] <pnorman> for reference:
[23:03] <Zverik> I see there are no new faces :)
[23:04] <Zverik> I guess we should accept the minutes. Who did read it?
[23:04] <datendelphin> no. Looks like we lost milo van der linden
[23:04] <datendelphin> I read it, accept.
[23:05] <jonwit> i accept as well
[23:05] * SJFriedl read the minutes when they released. I accept.
[23:05] <Zverik> thanks!
[23:05] <Zverik> now, let's go through unfininshed business...
[23:05] <Zverik> everyone here gets mails for membership@osmfoundation?
[23:05] <datendelphin> yes
[23:06] <SJFriedl> yes
[23:06] <jonwit> i get mail from it as well
[23:06] <Glassman> yes
[23:06] <Zverik> great
[23:06] <SJFriedl> they don't look like things that are actionable by us, generally.
[23:06] <pnorman> They are things we have to handle, except the SOTM stuff
[23:06] <Zverik> I agree. For that I've added two items on my own agenda :)
[23:07] <Zverik> first, civicrm.
[23:07] <datendelphin> I answered one of them, the rest unfortunately we could'nt do anything without access to civicrm and other stuff
[23:07] <Zverik> I have checked that I indeed have admin rights. So I need to add everyone here to moderators
[23:07] <Zverik> the question is, whom
[23:08] <Zverik> everyone here; everyone who attended the last (first) meeting, or everyone mentioned on the MWG wiki page?
[23:08] * SJFriedl would be glad to help if it makes sense; I'd be in voyeur mode only for a while.
[23:08] <Glassman> I'm happy to step in.
[23:08] <jonwit> so all 8 or so of us
[23:08] <datendelphin> what do you mean with whom? and I think we need to sign some kind of "we respect the privacy of our members" form beforehand
[23:09] <SJFriedl> I'm fine with an NDA
[23:09] <Zverik> I don't know, should we? pnorman
[23:09] <Glassman> I assumed it came from being on the wg
[23:09] <Zverik> I remember some discussion about NDA, but I'm not sure that was about MWG
[23:09] <jonwit> i second the motion to sign a NDA since we are dealing with financial transactions
[23:09] <SJFriedl> One thing I presume we'd have access to is individual email addresses that the members might want not public.
[23:10] <pnorman> I'm not sure on the details of data protection. The LWG is investigating a NDA because people want to contact us about non-public plans.
[23:10] <Zverik> how do I make an online NDA that will stand in court?
[23:10] <pnorman> But that's not a data privacy issue.
[23:10] <SJFriedl> ... and that's enforceable across boundaries.
[23:10] <SJFriedl> isn't OSMF basically the UK?
[23:11] <Glassman> can we start with a document that lists what we will keep private
[23:11] <SJFriedl> What does the privacy policy promise to users about what's kept private?
[23:11] <pnorman> the OSMF is UK based. I can ask the LWG if what we're working on might apply to the MWG too but we can't put stuff on hold waiting for that since membership@ is currently being answered
[23:12] <SJFriedl> How does one do a pinky swear over IRC? :-)
[23:12] <datendelphin> Well it is kind of the board's problem, not ours if we get access :) In that case I would do as Glassman suggests
[23:13] <jonwit> So how many people in the group have access to the membership database in this group? 
[23:13] <pnorman> privacy policy is about OSM, not OSMF membership. the private stuff would include membership information not part of the registrar like financial details, emails
[23:13] <datendelphin> a short list of things that should be kept private
[23:13] <Zverik> right. So, I (with maybe pnorman's help) will make a draft document, "I swear to not disclose...", and you will sign it with your name and e-mail, like CLA
[23:13] <Zverik> or does anyone else want to do that? :)
[23:14] <jonwit> I can volunteer to do that
[23:14] <Zverik> wonderful
[23:15] <Zverik> for now only me and pnorman have access. Did anyone see any mails that need anything done in civicrm?
[23:15] <datendelphin> jonwit: remember for the list that associate members get more privacy than normal members
[23:16] <datendelphin> yes, let me hav a look...
[23:16] <jonwit> ok sounds good, ill make a document and put it up for review tonight or tommorow
[23:17] <datendelphin> [Redacted]: signup without google form
[23:17] <datendelphin> I think we can answer that we have got his intention to be a member and will add him as soon as we get the payment
[23:17] <pnorman> ilya, can you handle granting access in civicrm?
[23:18] <Zverik> datendelphin: is there a google form?
[23:18] <datendelphin> but not sure if we have all the details (is he already in civicrm?) or if we need him to provide what is on that form by mail
[23:18] <Zverik> I though we changed that
[23:18] <datendelphin> I don't know how he reached that form
[23:19] <Zverik> so first we need to reply asking him to try again from
[23:19] <Zverik> jonwit: thanks
[23:19] <Zverik> pnorman: yes
[23:19] <jonwit> there are plenty of templates online to use
[23:20] <datendelphin> ok, yes. So the google form should not be there.
[23:20] <Zverik> I will do that right after jonwit makes a document and everyone signs it
[23:21] <datendelphin> this form goes directly to the civicrm database?
[23:21] <Zverik> datendelphin: I guess so
[23:23] <pnorman> I think we should not worry about specific members in the meeting, but getting everything setup. It also means I can make the minutes public easily.
[23:23] <Zverik> okay
[23:23] <Zverik> pnorman: what do we do with members wanting to wire transfer money?
[23:23] <datendelphin> pnorman: of course. We shoud have discussed that at the end
[23:24] <Zverik> sorry for that
[23:24] <datendelphin> I would make the minutes, but I don't have access to the osmf wiki
[23:24] <pnorman> Zverik: frederik's email is accurate as far as I know. we manually input something into civicrm for the money transfer
[23:25] <Zverik> pnorman: but only Frederik (and Peter) know when the money has been transferred, right?
[23:26] <Zverik> I wonder how Henk did it, not being a treasurer...
[23:26] <pnorman> has a form that members have to fill out for bank transfers
[23:27] <Zverik> pnorman: oh, you found that google form
[23:27] <datendelphin> ha thanks pnorman, so we should change that to the same form somehow
[23:27] <Glassman> It sounds like we should work document the flow on the wiki
[23:28] <datendelphin> or have a form that is sent by mail to mwg@
[23:28] <Zverik> yes, I assume we don't have access to the table produced from these forms
[23:29] <Zverik> okay, I'll have to clear that up wth Frederik
[23:29] <datendelphin> Zverik: should I talk to frederik about the transfers?
[23:30] <Zverik> now, some users asked us to remove them from somewhere. Do you think they meant osmf-talk mailing list, or the osmf?
[23:30] <Zverik> datendelphin: if it's not much trouble :)
[23:31] <datendelphin> of course not.
[23:31] <Zverik> thanks!
[23:31] <pnorman> We need to handle the osmf-talk@ list too. Should I talk to admins and get myself and ilya set as owners of that list so we can then have it working under the MWG?
[23:32] <datendelphin> yes, sounds reasonable
[23:32] <Glassman> +1
[23:32] <Zverik> pnorman: I agree
[23:32] <SJFriedl> that sounds reasonable also. +1
[23:32] <Zverik> so the osmf-talk@ subscriber management also goes to MWG
[23:32] <jonwit> So we are in charge of access to the osmf-talk@  list. are we in charge of moderating it? 
[23:32] <Zverik> I hope not :)
[23:33] <Zverik> I'm almost out of agenda items!
[23:33] <pnorman> probably won't be an issue until the election except for maybe some routine anti-spam stuff
[23:34] <datendelphin> well osmf-talk was quite tame the last few months
[23:34] <jonwit> I have not seen a "delete me from this list" ever surprisingly on it yet 
[23:34] <Zverik> there's an idea of opening a part of membership registry. Like, names and countries for normal users, osm nicknames for everyone, and renewal dates
[23:35] <pnorman> I support it in principle, but I think we should get more comfortable with CiviCRM first
[23:35] <Zverik> jonwit: I've seen a couple last year, when it was active
[23:35] <SJFriedl> Is it possible to create a readonly admin so we can poke around w/o risk for a while?
[23:35] <Zverik> I guess the opening part is for the Board to decide, though
[23:35] <datendelphin> osm nicknames even for associate members? there might be some who want no trace of their membership in public
[23:36] <Zverik> SJFriedl: but we need a signed NDA for that
[23:36] <pnorman> osm nicknames aren't a requirement of membership and I'm not sure if we record them
[23:36] <SJFriedl> oh sure, understood.  But even after NDA I'd like a low-risk access.
[23:36] <SJFriedl> "What's that button do?"
[23:37] <Zverik> SJFriedl: okay, then I'll have everyone tell me which kind of access they'd like :)
[23:37] <Zverik> CiviCRM is definitely not a easy to use system
[23:37] <SJFriedl> the least access that lets me learn the system is what I'd prefer.
[23:37] <Zverik> so... I'm out of items. Any other business?
[23:38] <Glassman> I'm good
[23:38] <pnorman> We can discuss by email, but is there anything we want to do at SOTM to encourage membership?
[23:38] <SJFriedl> isn't everybody at SOTM already a member? or do I misunderstand?
[23:38] <Glassman> pnorman did we get anyone signed up at sotmus?
[23:38] <SJFriedl> oh: OSM -vs- OSMF
[23:38] <SJFriedl> duh
[23:38] <Zverik> we discussed with the Board that we'll have a table to collect membership fees in cash :)
[23:39] <Zverik> do we want to do anything _before_ the sotm to encourage membership? Or maybe during some talks or workshops?
[23:40] <Zverik> Glassman: there wasn't anybody accepting new members at sotm us
[23:40] <Zverik> not for OSMF, not for OSM US
[23:40] <Glassman> what did people think of the banner ads for the SOTM on
[23:40] <pnorman> there's some talks by OSMF people on the schedule which we might be able to leverage
[23:40] <pnorman> Glassman: apparently quite effective
[23:40] <jonwit> i like the banner adds, there not very intrusive
[23:41] <SJFriedl> I liked the ads too.
[23:41] <Glassman> does anyone have the skill to create a good banner image for joining?
[23:42] <jonwit> my ms paint aren't great 
[23:42] <datendelphin> no, sorry
[23:42] <pnorman> The banners have mainly been about events at a specific time. I'd rather get a membership push associated with the next donation drive.
[23:42] <Glassman> The only person I know works at mapbox - I could ask her and see if brian housel would do the pull request.
[23:43] <Glassman> pnorman - just curious - why?
[23:43] <pnorman> When do we start and stop a banner?
[23:44] <Glassman> We could have a push the month before osmf elections
[23:44] <Zverik> a leaflet that I made for sotmus, btw:
[23:44] <jonwit> wouldn't be more effective to push a membership drive when nothing else is happening
[23:44] <Glassman> if nothing is happening, people may not be interested. 
[23:45] <Zverik> Banner ads on are good, but too big as of now. Some asked to make them less prominent
[23:45] <Glassman> Zverik I like your banner
[23:45] <datendelphin> aob: retire the google form
[23:45] <pnorman> I worry about banner overload too. And if we do put one up we need to be ready to handle the civicrm/administrative side of a bunch of people signing up, which we aren't right now
[23:46] <SJFriedl> good call
[23:46] <Glassman> when are elections?
[23:46] <Zverik> datendelphin: that would require making a stand-alone form, or even worse, to learn wordpress and make a form inside it
[23:46] <pnorman> GM date hasn't been set, but probably late this year or early next
[23:46] <Zverik> Glassman: end of the year. November-December
[23:47] <datendelphin> Of course its work, but I think we shoud do it
[23:47] <Glassman> that gives us a month or so to learn the system 
[23:47] <Zverik> Let's leave it for the next meeting. I'll try finding the existing forms in wordpress by then, so we know if that should be done in it or standalone
[23:48] <datendelphin> so Zverik and pnorman have access to the wiki? That means only thos two can do the minutes and changes to the signup
[23:49] <Zverik> yes. Signup is not handled in the wiki though
[23:49] <pnorman> signup is on not the front osmf page
[23:49] <datendelphin> and join. is using what software stack?
[23:49] <pnorman> wordpress
[23:50] <datendelphin> ok. Thats good
[23:50] <Zverik> Great. Do we have anything else?
[23:51] <datendelphin> We use a form on wordpress for signup
[23:51] <datendelphin> so I could probably help there
[23:51] <datendelphin> no, nothing else
[23:52] <Zverik> Then we can wrap this :)
[23:52] <Zverik> pnorman: did I miss anything?
[23:52] <jonwit> nothing else from me. great meeting
[23:52] <Glassman> thanks everyone
[23:53] <Zverik> well then, thanks a lot for coming! I'll publish minutes in an hour
[23:55] <datendelphin> thanks :) bye