Local Chapters Working Group/Meeting 2013-03-21
DRAFT
Attendees
| IRC nick | Real name |
|---|---|
| Gerald/GLH | Gerald Hasty |
| hbogner | Hrvoje Bogner |
| pnorman | Paul Norman |
| Hugo_H | Hugo Holscher |
| mkl | Mikel Maron |
| simonpoole | Simon Poole |
Summary
- Welcome and Introductions (simonpoole, 21:04:32)
- Election of chair, representative to the MT (simonpoole, 21:22:08)
- AGREED: GLH is chair and MT representative (simonpoole, 21:30:28)
- Work/action items for 2013 (simonpoole, 21:31:46)
- Meeting schedule, Next Meeting (simonpoole, 21:58:51)
IRC Log
21:04:01 <simonpoole> #startmeeting 21:04:02 <local-meetbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 21 21:04:01 2013 UTC. The chair is simonpoole. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:04:02 <local-meetbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 21:04:32 <simonpoole> #topic welcome and introductions 21:04:33 <pnorman> greetings from Canada 21:04:49 <simonpoole> Welcome everybody 21:05:23 <simonpoole> I would suggest that I chair the meeting till we have got aroun to actually electing a chair. 21:05:23 <mkl> hey everyone. (and nice, hadn't seen meetbot before) 21:05:56 <mkl> sounds ok simonpoole 21:05:57 <simonpoole> I haven't used it before either .... 21:06:13 <hbogner> well you called the meeting you run it, it's fair 21:06:28 <hbogner> i'm new here so ... 21:06:31 <simonpoole> I apologize in advance for any typos, still have some problems reading. 21:08:12 <simonpoole> I would suggest that we "go around the table" in alphabetical nick-order :-) and introduce ourselves, please indicate any affilacion with an existing local group and why you are interested in the LCWG. Ok with everybody? 21:08:35 <Hugo_H> #agreed 21:08:45 <simonpoole> Then I would suggest that Gerald starts. 21:08:46 <hbogner> #agreed 21:08:53 <Gerald> Ok 21:10:45 <simonpoole> note it is probably better to kepp the lines short 21:11:09 <Gerald> I live in Layton Utah, just a stones throw from Martijn. Have been a paid member of OSM for two years now. I belive in the spirit of OSM very much and want to be involved in it's expansion. As an aside, I am involved in emergency communications and use GIS often and am currently working on a OSM server for a private net. 21:12:44 <hbogner> Hrvoje Bogner from Zagreb, Croatia. Started mappind 2009. Joined OSMF this January. Run osm-hr.org with extracts and maps, ... 21:13:54 <Hugo_H> Hugo Hölscher, The Netherlands. Has not yet a local chapter, but I am talking with Henk Hoff already for 2 years to set something up. No progress so far, so this looks an opportunity to do so. 21:13:54 <hbogner> want to form a local organisation to find a away to get funds for a new server and if enough, for a tile cache, linux enthusiast, study at faculty of geodesy, over for now 21:14:25 <simonpoole> mkl? 21:14:26 <mkl> I'm Mikel. Based now in DC, so doing a lot with MappingDC, which is informal. Also member of OSM US Chapter. As well as supporter of other local groups like Map Kibera, India OSM community. 21:14:29 <Hugo_H> Active in NL since 2007 and also on holidays. No geo background at all, interested computer amateur 21:14:32 <mkl> To me, local chapters are important way to structure getting things done in the community; we already collaborate on the map in a federated way, and i think lot more can be done organizationally federated (rather than everything happening directly in OSMF). So I see the priorities as making a lightweight LC agreement. And building a strategy around support for building local chapters (better guides and materials, etc) 21:16:12 <mkl> ... 21:16:32 <simonpoole> pnorman? 21:16:56 <pnorman> I live in Vancouver, BC. OSMF and OSM-US member, DWG and MT member. Canada doesn't have a local chapter. I have a lot on my OSM plate, so I'm not sure how much time if any I'll be able to devote. I might also duck out today, running short on sleep 21:17:51 <simonpoole> I'm Simon, live in Switzerland and am a relative new comer to the project, I'm the current president of the Swiss OSM Association and a member of the OSMF board, as such I'm wearing two hats in this WG. From the OSMF side I'm trying to do some cleanup of stuff that has been dropped over the years (for example the LC contracts).... 21:19:13 <simonpoole> from the SOSM side I'm interested in some kind of formal agreement with the OSMF that on the one hand legalizes our use of OSMF intellectual property on the other hand we want to help promote OSM as much as possible. 21:19:48 <simonpoole> TomH are you participating or just here for any emergency debugging? 21:20:17 <simonpoole> ok debugging :-) 21:20:38 <Hugo_H> Looks like a com together from north America and Europe, no Asians? 21:21:03 <simonpoole> nobody showed any interest 21:21:19 <hbogner> i counted countries too 21:21:33 <simonpoole> but in general getting away from the Euro/USA focus would be a good thing 21:22:08 <simonpoole> #topic Election of chair, representative to the MT 21:22:16 <hbogner> it would be good, but their primary focus are hot activitied in those other areas 21:22:23 <GLH> Lost connection, came on another machine, SK 21:22:26 <hbogner> as i figure 21:22:29 <simonpoole> np 21:22:41 <simonpoole> ok Chair and MT representative 21:22:54 <hbogner> MT? 21:23:11 <simonpoole> management team 21:23:21 <mkl> I'm sure Indo and India and Philippines and Nepal would be interested, but perhaps they just want to know what to do :) 21:23:23 <hbogner> sorry didn't do my homework and recearch 21:23:34 <simonpoole> np 21:24:17 <Hugo_H> two roles combined in one person? 21:24:33 <simonpoole> chair is uspposed to run the meetings and in general produces the minutes, in a number of working groups he represents the WG in the MT 21:24:49 <mkl> i'll take myself out of the running for Chair/MT Rep. I simply don't have enough time with my other voluntary positions. but I am definitely ready to participate in this WG. 21:25:00 <simonpoole> I would really like for somebody to volunteer that can do both 21:25:05 <hbogner> ok, just to say, i'm in over my head with work in next 6 months, but want to keep up with progress 21:25:17 <GLH> What is the expected time? GA 21:25:30 <simonpoole> but would volunteer for the chair position, but then the MT rep would have to be somebody else 21:26:12 <GLH> I will raise my hand and give it a try, GA 21:26:36 <simonpoole> the MT has a meeting every 2nd week I believe and our schedule is open 21:26:48 <simonpoole> GLH for both? 21:27:10 <pnorman> last (and next) MT meeting was Europe evening. not going to give a time because I can never figure out the time zones 21:27:19 <GLH> I think so. Most of my time is open. I have my own schedule. GA 21:27:28 <simonpoole> ok that would be good 21:27:42 <simonpoole> (as a note on the side the more new blood the better) 21:28:11 <Hugo_H> #agreed 21:28:16 <hbogner> #agreed 21:28:27 <simonpoole> #agreed 21:29:06 <simonpoole> everybody ok with Gerald as chair? 21:29:24 <mkl> #agreed 21:29:50 <simonpoole> pnorman? 21:30:28 <simonpoole> #agreed GLH is chair and MT representative 21:30:55 <GLH> Thank you for the trust. SK 21:31:22 <simonpoole> good, then I would suggest that we move to the next topic and will hand over to GLH in a second 21:31:25 <hbogner> ok, next 21:31:46 <simonpoole> #topic work/action items for 2013 21:32:15 <Hugo_H> do we have an objective for 2013? 21:32:30 <simonpoole> the mangement team is looking for a short plan for 2013 ...what we want to acheive, activities etc. 21:32:57 <GLH> What is the scope of our activity for this working group? SK 21:33:13 <Hugo_H> achieve is the first step, tan we can define the work and actions 21:33:19 <simonpoole> the LWG has produced something we can use as a template ... so I would suggest that we try to produce something over the next couple of weeks in e-mail 21:33:42 <mkl> Local Chapter Agreement seems top priority 21:33:50 <Hugo_H> yes, is OK 21:33:54 <hbogner> ok, what is needed to forma local chapter? 21:34:03 <simonpoole> FLH that is for us to define ... some things a re obvious (contracts etc) others are very fuzzy 21:34:16 <hbogner> oficial ngo just a group of people? 21:34:24 <simonpoole> goog question 21:34:41 <Hugo_H> depends also on the local legislation I assume 21:34:44 <simonpoole> I think that we probably can't get around having two levels 21:34:46 <hbogner> i am thinking of forming official ngo but to much paperwork 21:34:54 <mkl> And I also suggest we look at ways to support the creation of new local chapters (materials, good guides, localosm.org minisite) ... things like that 21:35:02 <hbogner> mabye over another organization is ok too? 21:35:13 <simonpoole> requiring formal incorporation from day one is probabyl too much 21:35:17 <Hugo_H> We neeed to think about rules of engeagement between OSMF and the local chapters and between local chapters 21:35:22 <mkl> osmf couldn't have a legal agreement with a non-entity though 21:35:25 <simonpoole> well we have FOSSGIS as an example 21:36:00 <mkl> why couldn't a govt form a local chapter? 21:36:14 <mkl> or a group form as an llc, since that registration is much easier 21:36:25 <Hugo_H> llc? 21:36:54 <mkl> sorry, limited liability company. its US thing. basicly a simply business registration 21:37:07 <simonpoole> imho I don't think we need to prescribe exactlly how incorporation should happen 21:37:14 <pnorman> what legal form a local chapter takes is going to vary from country to country 21:37:16 <GLH> In the US, if no monies are involved then an organization does not need incorporation, but can be an informal organization. Should that be one level? What about other jurisdictions? 21:37:42 <Hugo_H> tnx, for NL the probable form is a foundation 21:38:19 <Hugo_H> has to do with objectives, no objective for profit, less tax hassle 21:38:41 <simonpoole> in Switzerland we have an association which is a formal incorporation form, currently we are not registered (that is legally only necessary from a certain size) but it is a forma legal entity 21:39:02 <hbogner> could it be a coperation with non goverment organization that is not osm specific, but linux and opens ource based? 21:39:05 <simonpoole> in the end as mkl wrote, we would be looking for a body we could sign a contract with 21:39:47 <simonpoole> I perosnally would think that it would have to have a substantial amount of OSM related activities 21:39:54 <Hugo_H> seems very country specific, even accross Europe 21:40:01 <simonpoole> sure 21:40:30 <simonpoole> thats why it won't be possible to nail it down to just one way of doing things 21:40:32 <hbogner> simonpoole, ubuntu ngo for croatia could that work? 21:40:37 <GLH> A recomendation was made for two levels, one could be formal and the other informal, with different rules for each. We need to help new comers to get organized. SK\ 21:41:23 <hbogner> i can sign officialy as that ngo president, and act as part of non official team 21:41:32 <simonpoole> yes I was thinking a long such lines so that you could get some kind of "recognition" as a 5 person group with the expectation that you would grow in to something more formal 21:41:35 <Hugo_H> the informal entity, does that not already exist 21:41:59 <mkl> there's no "recognition" 21:42:15 <mkl> i guess an informal level would have less rights? 21:42:16 <simonpoole> well we don't even list any chapter on the foundation website 21:42:38 <simonpoole> well that is up to us to work out 21:42:40 <mkl> not that we've discussed what those rights are 21:42:47 <GLH> There are some like in Utah, but we should be helpful and encourage others to start up. SK 21:42:57 <hbogner> ok, we are 10+ and could be formal after 6+ months when this mess at work/faculty passes 21:43:36 <Hugo_H> ANy idea how germany is organised, they are very big 21:43:47 <hbogner> :D 21:43:51 <simonpoole> I have to say my main concern is a group registering an openstreetmap domain and incorporating with openstreetmap something and then google or however comes along and takes control 21:44:00 <simonpoole> Germany is FOSSGIS 21:44:10 <simonpoole> so they do more than OSM 21:44:37 <hbogner> simonpoole, didn't get that part with ggole taking over? 21:44:57 <Hugo_H> NL could do something similar with OSGEO, but henk and I decided against that, to keep it clear 21:45:12 <simonpoole> in my negative scneario we need something that will revoke the right to use openstreetmap IP in such situations (and I've been through something along such lines in a different context before) 21:45:49 <mkl> osmf needs that ability. but how much does a violation need to be spelled out? 21:46:16 <hbogner> there is evena a plan to form OSGEO-hr with wider interests, mabe that's better than just osm ngo?? 21:46:19 <simonpoole> hbogner we currently have a lot of chapters for exampel the French registering openstreetmap.fr that use the trademarks etc. without a corresponding contract 21:46:31 <mkl> wouldn't they need to support the mission and goals of OSMF? 21:46:43 <hbogner> ahaa 21:46:55 <simonpoole> mkl: in general you just refer to change of control events, and inactivity would belong in there too 21:47:49 <simonpoole> anyway I think it is clear getting that done this year is likely our top priority, what about other stuff? 21:48:52 <mkl> And I also suggest we look at ways to support the creation of new local chapters (materials, good guides, localosm.org minisite), and help existing chapters do more ... things like that 21:48:53 <simonpoole> do we want to actively help local groups start up or do we want to wait till there is some local interest? what kind of supprot should we give? 21:49:31 <mkl> i don't think it's our place to actively start groups. but if there is some local interest, we can make it a lot easier for them. 21:50:05 <Hugo_H> we could describe what goals we expect from a local chapterand how we expect to interact with OSMF 21:50:12 <hbogner> ok, promoting osm, croatia activities: we have bussiness card size flyers on osm and osm-hr, spreading them on conferences, we have a month to write paper for a geodesy magzine on editing and using osm data 21:51:12 <hbogner> i need to change static web page and create cms so more people can participate, we have facebook page where we promote osm 21:51:47 <mkl> there's a lot of fliers that have been made. would be good to select some of the best for reuse/translation. github might be a good home for this 21:51:49 <Hugo_H> does that also include monitoring of violations of the license agreement and how that is communicated to OSMF? 21:51:58 <hbogner> i'll try to speak to dean of my faculty to let us hold lectures on osm to students and faculty staff, its faculty of geodesy, spatial data, ... 21:52:04 <simonpoole> what about cooperation with other local groups, neighbouring countries? 21:52:24 <Hugo_H> do we want local chapters to be able to close locally contracts representing OSMF? 21:52:40 <hbogner> Hugo_H, uh, nice point, finding pages that use osm data, that have atribution, that dont have atribution.... 21:53:14 <simonpoole> Hugo_H we were discussing this in the board yesterday, if possible I think the more dispute resolution that can be done at a local level the better 21:53:27 <Hugo_H> :(we lost our chair 21:53:32 <mkl> those are all good experiences, like local university lectures, to share with others. like a playbook of ideas for promotion 21:54:18 <simonpoole> GLH? 21:54:28 <GLH> Let's inject another thought. Do we want to treat interested local companies or uiviersity clubs as local organizations? GA 21:54:36 <mkl> yea, but license agreement discussions can be tricky. i think that's some place where we need good coordination/oversight with the OSMF 21:55:04 <GLH> I think that is what this group is about. SK 21:55:54 <simonpoole> GLH I think that such orgs can easily become members of the local chapters 21:56:19 <Hugo_H> We also need to think about the influence OSMF can have. Too much could render OSMF liable for local misoperations 21:56:31 <GLH> Or they become a local chapter, like school clubs? SK 21:56:55 <simonpoole> but I would be some what wary of having orgs as chapters that are not aligned with what we do (FOSSGIS other activities are naturally nicely complentary to OSM) 21:57:45 <simonpoole> GLH I didn't say so at the beginning, but I would suggest limiting the meetings to an hour 21:58:10 <mkl> agreed 21:58:13 <simonpoole> I think we have a nice collection of topics that we can work through 21:58:14 <GLH> What OSMF should be is a central point of contact and direction without legal imdemdenty. 21:58:31 <mkl> when's the next meeting? 21:58:51 <simonpoole> #topic Meeting schedule, Next Meeting 21:59:01 <hbogner> one question, when i go to talk to the dean, can i represent my self as an official osmf member? they are birocrats(or how it's spelled), they like fancy names 21:59:13 <GLH> To determain the next meeting, we should do as we did for this one, each of us select that time we are available. SK 21:59:33 <Hugo_H> use doodle again for in 2 weeks time? 21:59:52 <mkl> hbogner: that's maybe another question entirely. osmf membership has no membership rights or code of conduct 22:00:08 <GLH> At this point OSFM need to give us office recogniction and we need member ship in order to represent OSFM. SK 22:00:28 <simonpoole> roughyl every 2 weeks would be good for me, I'll add everybody to the local@osmfoundation.org mailing list and fix the page 22:00:51 <GLH> I liked usiing doodle. SK 22:00:53 <mkl> cool, i'm off to the pub. thanks everyone! 22:01:09 <simonpoole> ok 22:01:18 <hbogner> ok, i most likely wont make it in 2 week's or maybe even 4, but will try to read the minutes 22:01:37 <GLH> Simon, email me. GA 22:01:47 <Hugo_H> #agreed 22:01:55 <simonpoole> then I suggest we close the meeting, GLH I'll give you pointers to the meetbot docs etc per e-mail 22:02:00 <Hugo_H> cu Hugo 22:02:16 <simonpoole> #endmeeting