CWG meeting 2012-04-30

IRC log:

16:00 rweait1: Hello all.
16:01 rweait1: Do we have topics to add to the agenda today?
16:03 rweait1: I was to deliver the Ulf announcement draft, but that is still in progress. I'm finding it a challenge to write.
16:03 rweait1: ping harry-wood, JonathanB, RichardF
16:03 harry-wood: hello
16:04 harry-wood: for the agenda. license change comms
16:04 JonathanB: here
16:04 harry-wood: not sure what other comms are imminent.
16:05 harry-wood: I believe firefishy's been installing servers again. We could blog about that news
16:05 RichardF: pong
16:06 RichardF: I've not got a whole bunch to report. I helped Directions magazine and they wrote a nice piece about OSM.
16:06 rweait1: from last week we also asked about RichardF's plan about merging osmf related sites. I wonder if we let Richard know about that?  :-)
16:06 RichardF: laughs
16:06 RichardF: no, but we can talk about it - it would be good to, in fact
16:06 rweait1: shall we do license comms first?
16:07 RichardF: yep
16:07 rweait1: harry-wood: LWG takes an interest in this as well.
16:07 rweait1: LWG have presumed that there will be weekly updates until we don't need weekly updates any more.
16:07 rweait1: Does that sound reasonable? :-)
16:08 harry-wood: yes. but as I said before, the weekly thing is only the minimum frequency. We need to try to say something on a weekly basis even while there's not much to say
16:08 harry-wood: but I imagine when things start moving again...
16:08 harry-wood: …they'll be cause for updates more often
16:08 harry-wood: more traffic on the rebuild list
16:09 rweait1: and do any of us have any additional information on the redaction to report? (I do not. I'll have to ping dermot)
16:09 harry-wood: and possibly blog posts more often
16:09 RichardF: the tests seem to be moving on apace, from github activity at least.
16:11 rweait1: harry-wood, anything in particular you want to do / see done?
16:12 rweait1: I've been leaning on Dermot / Matt for info, then drafting for their revisions, then posting to rebuild@
16:13 harry-wood: yep. are due another one of those Wednesday
16:13 harry-wood: ?
16:13 rweait1: yup.
16:14 harry-wood: somebody here was demanding information: http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2012/04/26/license-change-still-ongoing/#comments …redirect him to the mailing list
16:14 rweait1: how about if I carry on with that and call for help if I need it? (Or I'll stand aside if somebody else is itching to do it)
16:14 harry-wood: sounds good
16:14 rweait1: Yeah, if you could point the comment guy, that would be great.
16:15 rweait1: RichardF: anything to share about the Directions article?
16:15 RichardF: I don't think so especially. It's good that they're happy to talk to us, and I think it came out well.
16:15 rweait1: Nice.
16:15 harry-wood: rweait1: Your mail about Canadian press coverage sounds awesome by the way
16:16 rweait1: Yeah1 Pretty excited about it. it hasn't finsihed yet. :-)
16:16 rweait1: Still due a couple of evening TV news spots.
16:16 rweait1: sadly the English-language radio stuff was cancelled, but the frech stuff seems to be going well.
16:17 harry-wood: oh the other thing re license change is… should the updates go to the talk list too?
16:17 rweait1: any other upcoming press for us to work on? I'm not aware of any...
16:18 RichardF: I'm not sure if it would help. People haven't been queueing up on talk@ to ask what's happening - blog.osmf.org seems to be enough
16:18 rweait1: the license. Sure. nothing stopping a repost or forward...
16:18 rweait1: one concerned party forwarded to talk@ last week, I think.
16:18 harry-wood: the one I replied to yeah
16:18 rweait1: The bigger announcements should be propagated further, I think.
16:19 rweait1: The "holding" announcements aren't really as interesting. :-)
16:19 rweait1: Shall we move on? RichardF's big plan or the ulf announcement?
16:20 harry-wood: There will be a "bots are commencing" announcement worthy of talk and the blog I suppose
16:20 rweait1: +1
16:21 harry-wood: The comment on the blog there...
16:21 harry-wood: also hints at the kind of question we need answers to a bit later on
16:21 harry-wood: How exactly things will start up again.
16:22 rweait1: I think that has all been ably answered on rebuild@, so we can copy/paste from there.
16:22 rweait1: diffs will restart but in a new dir.
16:22 harry-wood: Much earlier on Frederick said something about "rebuilding the tile server". Maybe related to coastline data too? Not sure. There's some unanswered questions there, but yeah ideally it would be discussed on rebuild
16:23 RichardF: yep, obviously everything on the tileserver is from CC-BY-SA data... and it'll take a time for it all to be refreshed to ODbL
16:23 RichardF: I don't think there's currently any plan to "force" that
16:23 harry-wood: ah I see. related to cached tiles etc
16:23 harry-wood: So maybe this kind of thing we could start to clarify in blog posts, if we're clear what the plans are
16:24 harry-wood: Or quiz matt & dermot on it
16:24 RichardF: yeah. anything does need to be run past Matt and/or Dermot, even if only informally.
16:25 harry-wood: To them it will feel like we're getting ahead of ourselves… but the point is these are things to *try* to communicate ahead of time
16:25 RichardF: yep
16:25 rweait1: okay, you want that task harry-wood?
16:25 harry-wood: the task of quizzing matt & demot?
16:26 rweait1: ... and assembling a sensible blog post.
16:26 harry-wood: can't take any tasks these next few days
16:26 harry-wood: but maybe after I'm back in the UK
16:26 rweait1: okay can we leave it 'til next week then?
16:26 harry-wood: yep
16:26 rweait1: anything else before we close license comms? Or move on?
16:28 JonathanB: <tumbleweed>
16:28 rweait1: RichardF: how about the web site plan?
16:28 JonathanB: I think that's a move on
16:28 RichardF: right, yes.
16:28 RichardF: well, not really a website plan; more a blog plan.
16:29 RichardF: insofar as we have two blogs at the moment, and neither of them have the word 'OpenStreetMap' in the title.
16:29 RichardF: which is not optimal.
16:29 RichardF: there is perpetual confusion about what we post to each blog, and if we don't understand, why on earth should any readers.
16:29 RichardF: we are in a competitive environment; we need to have a clear message, simply communicated.
16:29 harry-wood: agreed
16:29 RichardF: therefore: the suggestion is that we merge blog.osmf.org and opengeodata.org into a single project blog.
16:30 RichardF: at blog.openstreetmap.org or somesuch.
16:30 JonathanB: I'd put it more that people expect OSM to be an organisation, rather than a loose, federal project
16:30 RichardF: keep all the old postings as archives; use whatever is easiest to post (WP or Posterous or whatever); I don't have an opinion on that.
16:31 JonathanB: +1 for WP, based on personal prejudice
16:31 rweait1: and leave the existing community diaries as blogs.osm.org ?
16:31 rweait1: note the _s_
16:31 RichardF: yep, either that or move to community.osm.org to avoid confusion - again, no great preference.
16:31 rweait1: sure, I'm +1 on all of the above.
16:31 RichardF: blog aggregators like that are often known as "planet" but we already have a planet.osm.org ;)
16:31 rweait1: no preference for specific CMS.
16:32 RichardF: I believe OSMF (via Grant) now has control of the OGD domain, which makes moving it easier.
16:32 rweait1: Who wants the job of archiving all the goodies? Sounds like a biggish one.
16:32 RichardF: I think we probably just scrape them and upload the results somewhere, but Posterous may have better options. Grant seems to have a good handle on that.
16:33 rweait1: and the old domains? turn them into pointers to the new?
16:33 RichardF: yep. same goes for the RSS feeds.
16:33 rweait1: any expected headaches?
16:34 RichardF: I think it'll be especially beneficial for OGD where it's never quite clear whether it's some random person's brainfarts or the official project blog.
16:34 rweait1: right.
16:34 RichardF: I don't know of any huge headaches. But that's the sort of thing that we can work out with Grant when we do the transfer.
16:34 rweait1: So how will we distinguish policy from discussion from brainfart when all are collected together?
16:35 RichardF: we flag up discussion as "this is a personal opinion by" or "this is a thought-piece by" or somesuch.
16:35 rweait1: use some strict tags ?
16:35 RichardF: something like that, yeah. we could probably do with a very short "contributor's guide".
16:36 JonathanB: WP allows you to have different post templates, which would make things easier
16:36 rweait1: we can use this as a header for my posthttp://www.technollama.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/open_source_communism.jpgs.
16:36 rweait1: oops, drop the trailing "s"
16:36 harry-wood: do we want translatable posts on this new merged blog?
16:36 RichardF: hahaha
16:36 RichardF: harry-wood: I think we'll get lynched if we don't ;)
16:37 rweait1: I think we've worked pretty hard to get translations for blog posts. are they sucessful ?
16:37 harry-wood: In some ways the sensible approach is to just move the blog.osmfoundation.org to a new location to be the merged blog
16:37 RichardF: technically I suspect the easiest way to do it will be just to move blog.osmf.org to the new URL
16:37 RichardF: or, what you just said :)
16:37 harry-wood: but the tricky thing is that it's the pages on there are part of the foundation site
16:37 harry-wood: and also benefiting from being translatable
16:38 RichardF: maybe WP lets you export particular content - don't know.
16:38 harry-wood: So maybe we ask grant to duplicate the whole WP install and content… and then delete the blog from osmfoundation.org… and delete the pages from the new site
16:38 RichardF: would sound sensible.
16:39 harry-wood: also needs some skinning work. The new site would not have the same menu
16:39 RichardF: do we have general agreement on the principle? if so then we can start talking to Grant about the implementation
16:39 JonathanB: www.osmf already points at the foundation wiki
16:39 rweait1: So we want to continue with the translations? Does the community like them?
16:39 harry-wood: yes… but do they like them enough to make them worthwhile? :-)
16:40 JonathanB: Does it make the project look less Anglocentric?
16:40 RichardF: I think anything that moved _away_ from translations would cause a reputation problem, at least, whether or not it caused an actual problem.
16:40 harry-wood: As RichardF says we'll get lynched for not being translationed
16:40 rweait1: RichardF: agreement in principle. yes, absolutely.
16:40 RichardF: and if people are willing to translate, who are we to stop them :)
16:41 rweait1: so what the next step for the blogs?
16:41 harry-wood: Hmm I wonder if the non-proft license we have for the translate plugin will work on two domains
16:41 harry-wood: annoying that this plugin went unfree
16:42 rweait1: it also seems that an important piece of the translation module is even less free, as it is separated out as another module
16:43 rweait1: I'm unhappy about using it. Do we have an alternative?
16:43 JonathanB: Pay to have a free version written?
16:43 RichardF: laughs
16:43 rweait1: I'd be happier about that.
16:43 JonathanB: Sorry. Pay to have a Free version written?
16:44 rweait1: Drupal has i18n l10n modules. but I'm ont current on them
16:44 rweait1: s/ont/not/
16:44 rweait1: I'll stop whinging.
16:44 JonathanB: Drupal's a but of a pneumatic jackhammer to crack a nut
16:45 RichardF: I like Drupal but I think jumping to it for the OSM blog might be a bit of a jump too far :)
16:45 JonathanB: ...although wemight be able to get Dan Karran to do a lot of the work
16:46 rweait1: so what's the next step then?  :-)
16:48 RichardF: to e-mail Grant and talk about the implementation, I think
16:48 rweait1: Cool. Any deadlines or special urgency on this?
16:49 harry-wood: no. That's why we've been talking about it for months :-)
16:49 rweait1: Okay, so fill us in next week RichardF?
16:49 RichardF: I'll write a message and cc communication@ .
16:49 RichardF: yep.
16:49 rweait1: Awesome.
16:49 harry-wood: I'll see grant on Monday too
16:49 harry-wood: maybe I'll get chance to chat to him
16:49 rweait1: Okay, I still have the Ulf announcement.
16:50 rweait1: I'll finish a draft shortly.
16:50 rweait1: We have an email address
16:50 rweait1: memorial@openstreetmap.org
16:50 rweait1: for inquiries about donations and for nominations for award winners.
16:51 rweait1: I'll ask Grant for donations.openstreetmap.org/memorial as a paypal campaign
16:51 rweait1: Oliver already has Euro bank transfers working. and will note the ones that mention Ulf.
16:52 rweait1: Board has agreed to kick in a substantial contribution at the end of the first year, to "round up" the amount.
16:52 rweait1: I'd like to forward the draft to all of you for comment later today?
16:52 rweait1: as I say, I'm finding it a difficult piece to write.
16:55 rweait1: one last thing, relating to an audacious goal set by the board...
16:55 rweait1: "A national broadcaster with TV and radio coverage is better than a stinky old New York newspaper, right?"
16:56 RichardF: heh
16:56 harry-wood: hehehe
16:56 RichardF: and we were on the front page of the NYT's Business section AIUI.
16:56 rweait1: So we can check that one off?
16:56 rweait1: hah. It isn't even the end of the second quarter.
16:57 rweait1: Anything incoming from MT or other Wgs that they want help on?
16:57 harry-wood: Mailing lists thing
16:57 rweait1: Any other groups with announcements to make other than the aforementioned?
16:57 harry-wood: I'm keen to wrap up for today though
16:57 rweait1: harry-wood. Right. was there guidance on that?
16:58 harry-wood: Can't remember what we said last time about it. Its not urgent though
16:58 harry-wood: I've put it on the TODO doc
16:58 harry-wood: speaking of which
16:58 rweait1: aiui, somebody said we should get rid of unused lists. UNless they suggest which lists are unused, that sounds like nonsense make work to me,
16:58 harry-wood: "Complete OSM Facebook page timeline"
16:58 harry-wood: can we cross that one off?
16:58 rweait1: sure.
16:58 harry-wood: jonathanB?
16:59 rweait1: lloks like that page is on timeline now.
16:59 JonathanB: Well, it went live, but we can always add more stuff to it
16:59 harry-wood: retrospective things for the timeline?
16:59 JonathanB: Yes -- it allows you to do that
16:59 JonathanB: It's not massively important, but it's quite pretty
16:59 harry-wood: :-/ tedious job. Could be worth doing though
17:00 RichardF: rweait1: Mike Collinson is traditionally in charge of the lists. If he wants to prune them that's his choice, but I wouldn't spend much CWG time on it.
17:00 rweait1: fine by me.
17:00 rweait1: let's wrap this up so harry can enjoy DC.  :-)
17:00 harry-wood: oh you added mailing lists duplicate entry on the TODO list
17:00 rweait1: same time next week?
17:00 harry-wood: (I added it higher up)
17:01 harry-wood: fixed
17:01 harry-wood: OK yeah. next week
17:01 RichardF: I won't be here next week I'm afraid - will be up a mountain
17:01 rweait1: Enjoy1
17:01 JonathanB: Which one?
17:01 rweait1: enjoy!!!1!
17:01 harry-wood: Ah.. I won't be here next week because we're celebrating TomH's birthday! :-)
17:02 rweait1: JonathanB, you too?
17:02 JonathanB: I can be here
17:02 rweait1: okay, we can catch up with Henk.
17:02 rweait1: that it for today?
17:02 harry-wood: yep and be on the emails, particularly with anything license change related
17:03 rweait1: okay. bye all.