CWG meeting 2012-04-23

From OpenStreetMap Foundation


  • Harry Wood
  • Henk Hoff
  • Jonathan Bennett
  • Richard Weait

Also attending

  • Ian Dees
  • Darafei Praliaskouski

IRC log

(04:00:29 PM) rweait1: So, everybody ready for CWG?
(04:00:49 PM) JonathanB: Here
(04:00:51 PM) toffehoff: Think I am....
(04:01:07 PM) JonathanB: "Ready" might be stretching the definition somewhat
(04:01:51 PM) toffehoff: Working on some last details of WhereCampEU which is taking place this weekend.
(04:02:10 PM) rweait1: previous minutes.
(04:02:12 PM) toffehoff: CWG is an interesting distraction.
(04:02:49 PM) rweait1: anybody have any topics for the agenda today?  
(04:03:17 PM) rweait1: I'll add:   redaction update,
(04:03:26 PM) rweait1: GPS co. comms.
(04:03:28 PM) JonathanB: Maybe -- I was wondering whether anyone else had a recollection of a discussion about various OSMF sites (blog, wiki, etc)
(04:03:29 PM) rweait1: Ulf
(04:03:45 PM) rweait1: Okay, OSMF Sites.
(04:04:19 PM) toffehoff: Looks like a full agenda.
(04:04:49 PM) rweait1: and from last week, Rumours - to dispel or not to dispel; that  is the question.
(04:05:07 PM) rweait1: I'm sure I messed up the punctuation there. :-)
(04:05:12 PM) JonathanB: Isn't that more "donation disclosure policy"?
(04:05:37 PM) iandees [] entered the room.
(04:06:01 PM) rweait1: More like, "If somebody in the community starts a wiki page, would we try to stop it?"  
(04:06:07 PM) rweait1: Hi, iandees.
(04:06:21 PM) rweait1: Where shall we start?
(04:06:24 PM) iandees: Hi rweait1 et al.
(04:06:30 PM) toffehoff: Hi Ian
(04:06:37 PM) rweait1: iandees: we're collecting topics for the agenda.  Anything to add?
(04:07:12 PM) iandees: GOOG just announced GSoC students so OSM is allowed to announce our students via various media. Would love to work with someone to craft a message.
(04:07:14 PM) rweait1: RichardF, harry-wood, either of you on?
(04:07:36 PM) harry-wood: Ooh hello
(04:07:47 PM) harry-wood: CWG I was forgetting about this
(04:07:55 PM) harry-wood: sadly I'm going to have to leave in 10 minutes
(04:08:07 PM) rweait1: iandees, awesome, if you would write draft and send to, we can revise if needed and post...
(04:08:26 PM) rweait1: harry-wood, anything for us before you go?  FAvoured topic?
(04:09:30 PM) harry-wood: Well license change remains the priority, although not sure if there's anything new
(04:09:36 PM) rweait1: Right.
(04:09:53 PM) rweait1: Be nice to get an update out on rebuild, even if it is a "noop"
(04:09:54 PM) harry-wood: Are we aiming to update again on Wednesday
(04:10:11 PM) rweait1: Shall I ping Dermot again and aim for Wednesday update?
(04:10:21 PM) harry-wood: Yes please!
(04:10:35 PM) rweait1: Okay that's on me unless somebody else wants to take it. :-)
(04:10:46 PM) toffehoff: Shall we also post an update on blog.osmf?
(04:11:07 PM) harry-wood: Well…  I think it might be a good idea.
(04:11:08 PM) rweait1: I was thinking in the comments from RichardF's post...  What do you all think?
(04:11:49 PM) harry-wood: oh yeah. Well in the comments someone could at least point people at the mailing list archive
(04:11:54 PM) harry-wood: Maybe it makes sense for rebuild list to have more regular and more technical updates
(04:12:07 PM) harry-wood: than the blog I mean
(04:12:14 PM) rweait1: sure, as long as that isn't burden for the coders.
(04:12:23 PM) rweait1: Ah, I get it. 
(04:12:26 PM) toffehoff: I thought the rebuild list was for technical stuff related to rebuild.
(04:12:33 PM) toffehoff: Not for general updates?
(04:12:40 PM) harry-wood: but it would be good for the blog to have updates too, since some people are watching that channel
(04:13:08 PM) toffehoff: A more general one w/o all the little details.
(04:13:13 PM) rweait1: Okay, if the blog is important, who's going to do it?  :-)  
(04:13:23 PM) harry-wood: toffehoff.  Dunno really I think there's various semi-technical folks watching for updates from the uber-technical folks on the rebuild list
(04:13:44 PM) harry-wood: but rebuild was originally for discussing the work to do
(04:13:46 PM) Blackadder left the room (quit: Quit: heading for the next unmapped place=).
(04:14:05 PM) harry-wood: it transitioned into more of an announcement channel lately
(04:14:10 PM) toffehoff: Let me try to make something for blog.osmf based on the thing we write for rebuild.
(04:14:20 PM) rweait1: toffehoff: cool.
(04:14:50 PM) rweait1: JonathanB: you wanted to talk about various sites?
(04:15:13 PM) harry-wood: we have merging blogs on the TODO list
(04:15:18 PM) harry-wood: is that related?
(04:15:22 PM) JonathanB: Yes -- this has been prompted by coming under OSMF "control"
(04:15:40 PM) harry-wood: RichardF said we would come up with some plans for this
(04:15:44 PM) JonathanB: So we now have two blogs, but also the wiki for OSMF-related content
(04:16:21 PM) JonathanB: While we're mangling stuff anyway, should we just ditch mediawiki and host any static content about the foundation in WordPress?
(04:16:41 PM) rweait1: What's the lowest friction approach?
(04:16:56 PM) rweait1: one CMS rather than two sounds good.
(04:17:04 PM) JonathanB: Indeed
(04:17:30 PM) JonathanB: It's just whether there are people maintaining content in the OSMF wiki that wouldn't like to do it in WP, since it could be perceived as harder
(04:17:45 PM) harry-wood: I suggested ditching mediawiki to Firefishy. He wasn't keen on the idea.  Or at least I think he was frustrated with being asked to install it and then asked to uninstall it later.  He'd rather have it there as a document holding place of some sort.
(04:17:53 PM) toffehoff: Apparently having the mediawiki on osmf has some advantages for crossposting on osm and osmf
(04:17:59 PM) harry-wood: (this discussion was a little while ago now though)
(04:18:21 PM) rweait1: does this need "planning", "discussion", "a volunteer" or just "approval"?
(04:19:07 PM) harry-wood: Content-wise the main difference I see is that the wordpress translation mechanism is quite elegant, so good to have key pages as wordpress "pages" rather than wiki pages
(04:19:07 PM) toffehoff: I think we first need a list of pros and cons and make a decision on that.
(04:19:08 PM) JonathanB: If there are good reasons to keep MW, I'm cool with that
(04:19:44 PM) rweait1: toffehoff:  That's why I'm asking, because I think we've covered this ground before...
(04:20:13 PM) harry-wood: A suggestion form RichardF back when we discussed this…  was that mediawiki could be side-lined to a area of the site called 'projects' or something
(04:20:26 PM) JonathanB: I'm happy to do the actual work of moving all the content to WP if that's seen as a good thing
(04:20:51 PM) toffehoff: but it hasn't risen from the level of "we think". 
(04:21:00 PM) harry-wood: A new complication to throw into the mix is that we're also now talking about merging blogs to a new location ( which would no longer be designed to look like part of the OSMF site
(04:21:33 PM) harry-wood: So…   actual blog content would be "moved off" the OSMF site
(04:21:55 PM) toffehoff: We need a clear proposal we could have checked with sysadmins and other people to give their comment ....
(04:21:59 PM) harry-wood: meaning any further use of wordpress would be…  not for blogging…    Perhaps a little wierd?  but it would work I suppose
(04:22:23 PM) JonathanB: I'll contact Grant for his opinion.
(04:22:46 PM) harry-wood: yeah but the latest on this was also that RichardF was going to come up with a plan
(04:23:01 PM) Komzpa [] entered the room.
(04:23:10 PM) rweait1: Perhaps run this around by email this week for approval next week?
(04:23:36 PM) rweait1: Hi Komzpa
(04:23:39 PM) toffehoff: Or ping RichardF to have his plan ready by next week.
(04:23:43 PM) toffehoff: ?
(04:23:54 PM) harry-wood: I'm imagining RichardF has ideas on how this should be done
(04:23:59 PM) rweait1: either way works for me.  
(04:24:15 PM) harry-wood: since he volunteered to plan it.  But I guess he didn't get chance to do it yet
(04:24:17 PM) rweait1: JonathanB: care to ping RichardF on this?
(04:24:18 PM) Komzpa: hi rweait1; I just joined to lurk :3
(04:24:22 PM) JonathanB: rweait1: Will d
(04:24:24 PM) JonathanB: o]
(04:24:30 PM) rweait1: :-)
(04:25:14 PM) harry-wood: If you take a look at the CWG TODO list google doc...
(04:25:20 PM) harry-wood: I added another TODO a few days ago
(04:25:49 PM) harry-wood: Discussed by the management group.  There's a few stale mailing lists
(04:25:54 PM) rweait1: I will state for the record that g docs are a blight on the landscape and an affront to the human race.  That is all.
(04:26:14 PM) harry-wood: the implied suggestion was that stale mailing lists should be deleted
(04:26:30 PM) harry-wood: I said we'd discuss at CWG.  Investigate, and recommend something for the sysadmins to do
(04:26:34 PM) rweait1: I don't see a problem with that. 
(04:26:53 PM) harry-wood: We need to include Mike Collinson in discussions/decisions
(04:26:54 PM) Komzpa: is there a way to "archive" those?
(04:27:04 PM) harry-wood: Well yes the archive is the question
(04:27:18 PM) JonathanB: We can prevent any new subscriptions to the lists, but that would probably need Mike's help
(04:27:23 PM) harry-wood: (which people may not have thought about when suggestion deletion)
(04:27:27 PM) toffehoff: if there is anything to archive ;-)
(04:28:03 PM) harry-wood: right so it could be there's some mailing lists with nothing much to archive
(04:28:19 PM) harry-wood: in which case it's easier.  I guess the software lets us just delete these
(04:28:27 PM) harry-wood: I see no harm in doing so
(04:28:51 PM) harry-wood: for lists which have fallen out of use,  I would be better to keep the archive somehow
(04:28:52 PM) toffehoff: Anyone interested to investigate?
(04:29:08 PM) harry-wood: I have to go
(04:29:21 PM) rweait1: just in the nick of time.  Safe journey.  :-)
(04:29:28 PM) toffehoff: Happy travels.
(04:29:30 PM) harry-wood: see you!
(04:30:06 PM) rweait1: the mailing list thing came from MT.  Any urgency to it?
(04:30:29 PM) toffehoff: I don't think there is an real urgency here. 
(04:30:41 PM) rweait1: any volunteer?  
(04:30:57 PM) rweait1: to coordinate with sysadmins and Mike?
(04:31:06 PM) JonathanB: If there's no urgency I can do it
(04:31:17 PM) rweait1: was there a list of dormant lists, or is that TBD, as well?
(04:31:18 PM) JonathanB: Can't promise much movement before next CWG though
(04:31:53 PM) toffehoff: I haven't seen a specific list. I think it was asked in a general way. 
(04:32:06 PM) toffehoff: An occasional clean up
(04:32:27 PM) rweait1: toffehoff, please get a list from MT, so we know we're talking about the same thing?  
(04:32:40 PM) rweait1: without that, we might decide nothing is currently dormant.
(04:32:45 PM) JonathanB: +1
(04:33:16 PM) rweait1: the idea sounds reasonable, but no point in chasing our tails if there is nothing else to cahse...
(04:33:19 PM) rweait1: chase.
(04:33:22 PM) toffehoff: I can ask. But besides that, it's also good to have our own check of lists that are dormant.
(04:33:33 PM) rweait1: Cool.
(04:33:36 PM) rweait1: Thanks.
(04:33:51 PM) rweait1: next?  GPS co comms.
(04:34:08 PM) rweait1: There was an email to LWG from a company thinking about using OSM data. 
(04:34:30 PM) rweait1: I replied to it.  no follow up yet, but they might want to talk by phone. 
(04:34:50 PM) rweait1: if there is no Legal component to their questions, that should probably be a CWG thing?
(04:35:14 PM) rweait1: They were also pointed to various community resources.
(04:35:28 PM) rweait1: So this might not turn into anything. 
(04:36:04 PM) rweait1: Did you see the note I cc'd to communication?
(04:36:19 PM) toffehoff: Let me also raise this question with MT about where these questions should be handled.
(04:36:37 PM) toffehoff: CWG could be a good place. Not sure what other WG's think.
(04:36:52 PM) toffehoff: That is for future requests....
(04:37:12 PM) rweait1: Speaking of other WGs, do they have anything that they want communicated?
(04:37:26 PM) rweait1: Any updates to offer to the blogs, lists or etc?
(04:37:57 PM) rweait1: CWG is here to help, of course, should any of the other WGs want to publish anything (and choose not to do it themselves)
(04:38:10 PM) toffehoff: Last MT was largely about it's own functioning and how to do better.
(04:38:23 PM) toffehoff: Involvement of WG in MT is not optimal currently.
(04:38:40 PM) rweait1: any WG in particular or all WGs? 
(04:38:48 PM) toffehoff: I am appointed chair of MT to get this thing on track.
(04:39:26 PM) rweait1: anything else from / to MT?
(04:39:27 PM) toffehoff: CWG should not feel guilty in this perspective.
(04:40:09 PM) rweait1: Next?
(04:40:39 PM) harry-wood left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
(04:40:45 PM) rweait1: Memorial Fund announcement. 
(04:40:56 PM) rweait1: is scheduled for 03 May.  
(04:41:15 PM) rweait1: Which means I should write it, circulate it this week and we can approve it next week. 
(04:41:21 PM) rweait1: sound good? :-)
(04:41:44 PM) toffehoff: So, what exactly is going on on 03 May. Just an announcement?
(04:41:49 PM) rweait1: Yup.
(04:42:20 PM) rweait1: date chose as a tribute on Ulf's birthday. 
(04:42:20 PM) toffehoff: No specific wiki page or whatever?
(04:42:36 PM) toffehoff: (just asking)
(04:43:04 PM) rweait1: sure, web page, paypal page / campaign, etc.
(04:43:09 PM) rweait1: all part of the announcement.
(04:43:53 PM) toffehoff: Any help needed from others>
(04:43:54 PM) toffehoff: ?
(04:45:06 PM) rweait1: I'll need Grant to do the paypal stuff.   And I'll need Board to confirm the donation amount, but that doesn't have to be announced until the end of the year-ish.
(04:46:24 PM) rweait1: Any comments, or next topic?
(04:46:27 PM) toffehoff: if everything is taken care of, great!
(04:46:36 PM) rweait1: :-)
(04:46:46 PM) toffehoff: Thanks rweait1 for handling this!
(04:46:48 PM) rweait1: list of financial donors, from last week.
(04:47:27 PM) rweait1: last week, toffehoff: was reluctant to publish such a list but had difficulty expressing why.  
(04:48:00 PM) toffehoff: Within board we're now working to create a quarterly report.
(04:48:27 PM) rweait1: That would be all financial matters?
(04:48:39 PM) rweait1: or financial plus everything else?
(04:49:04 PM) toffehoff: We're also thinking about membership report, infrastructure and such.
(04:49:10 PM) toffehoff: (next to financial).
(04:49:45 PM) toffehoff: Something which is on a regular bases and not ad-hoc.
(04:49:57 PM) toffehoff: bases = basis.
(04:50:36 PM) toffehoff: My problem with the wiki page with a list of donors is: who is going to maintain it? And can you keep it maintained.
(04:50:44 PM) rweait1: Is there a target date for publishing the first such report?
(04:51:34 PM) toffehoff: Not yet. Our treasurer is moving from one bookkeeping system to another.
(04:51:41 PM) toffehoff: That needs to be finished first.
(04:52:35 PM) toffehoff: We're probably not making Q1, but good chances of getting on end Q2
(04:52:40 PM) rweait1: Sounds like this addresses the need expressed by the community.  Is help from CWG required on this in any way?
(04:52:49 PM) toffehoff: Still need to work on the format ....
(04:53:33 PM) toffehoff: At the moment, no. But I think help from CWG will be welcomed in due time.
(04:53:39 PM) rweait1: it can, of course, be sent to CWG for distribution once ready.
(04:53:39 PM) toffehoff: Will keep you all posted.
(04:53:43 PM) rweait1: excellent
(04:54:07 PM) rweait1: Anybody see a need to make in interim list until the reports start?
(04:54:28 PM) JonathanB: Not unless an almighty stink is kicked up
(04:55:07 PM) JonathanB: We need people to trust that we're being as honest and open as we can be -- I think this move is good in that respect
(04:55:16 PM) rweait1: Anything else, or are we going to wrap up early today?  :-)
(04:55:30 PM) rweait1: Komzpa, iandees, anything we can do for you?
(04:56:09 PM) iandees: write my press release :) no i was here to lurk but i got drawn into a firedrill here at work.
(04:56:18 PM) rweait1: Ha.  
(04:56:50 PM) rweait1: Okay, I'm going to go get caught in traffic and a snowstorm for a few hours.  we can work on your draft tonight if you like. :-)
(04:56:59 PM) iandees: :) ok
(04:57:06 PM) toffehoff: Snowstorm?!
(04:57:07 PM) iandees: drive safe!
(04:57:08 PM) rweait1: Okay, all done then.  
(04:57:13 PM) rweait1: See you all next week.