CWG meeting 2011-12-12

Attendees

Richard Weight
Harry Wood
Jonathan Bennett
Henk Hoff

Topics

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IRC log

21:00 rweait1 Ah ha!
21:00 harry-wood hello
21:00 toffehoff Hello Harry!
21:01 rweait1 http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2011-12-05
21:01 rweait1 previous minutes to consider.
21:01 harry-wood just arrived home… a bit wet
21:01 rweait1 shake it off, man! :-)
21:01 rweait1 I see RichardF monitoring, but he gave apologies for today.
21:02 rweait1 Everybody else check in shortly please.
21:02 harry-wood How was the Toronto xmas party?!!
21:02 rweait1 I'll report that my task is complete.
21:02 rweait1 Eugene is a translator now and posted his first.
21:02 rweait1 Toronto party was fun.
21:02 toffehoff Excellent!
21:03 rweait1 Good (for Toronto) crowd of 7.
21:03 JonathanB lo
21:03 rweait1 Hours of chatting and discussing mapping tools etc.
21:03 rweait1 No newbies this time.
21:03 toffehoff I presume the Toronto party and Eugene are two different subjects....
21:03 rweait1 Yes.
21:03 toffehoff :-)
21:03 rweait1 I was not assigned to do the party. :-)
21:03 harry-wood http://blog.osmfoundation.org/?lang=ru
21:04 toffehoff But you did it anyways ....
21:04 harry-wood translations!
21:04 rweait1 henk, you had a translation task as well.
21:04 rweait1 I seem to have stepped on your toes a bit. Sorry.
21:04 rweait1 I had a cross-over need from LWG.
21:04 toffehoff No problem.
21:04 rweait1 Do you have some other recruits to consider?
21:04 toffehoff Better two people working on something than no-one
21:04 JonathanB rweait1: Does that mean you *were* assigned to do Eugene?
21:05 rweait1 Yes. So say the minutes, anyway...
21:05 toffehoff I need to take a look a the people you already have.
21:05 toffehoff and which languages are still missing.
21:06 toffehoff So, that is ongoing.
21:06 rweait1 Okay, we had a couple of all call tasks, and jonathan re think up. JonathanB?
21:06 JonathanB In case you didn't see my mail during the week
21:07 JonathanB Tom just went ahead and installed ThinkUp at http://thinkup.openstreetmap.org/
21:07 JonathanB Already it's giving us an interesting picture of what's popular
21:07 rweait1 is that behind a login? Should it be? What's best practice?
21:07 JonathanB There's no login to view the information
21:08 JonathanB There's nothing there that's not effectively public information anyway
21:08 JonathanB and we have nothing to gain by hiding it.
21:08 toffehoff Do others have something to gain by knowing it?
21:08 JonathanB However, ThinkUp isn't designed as a large-scale web app, and I don't know how powerful the machine running it is
21:09 JonathanB so having every mapper looking at it isn't going to help from a technical PoV
21:09 JonathanB toffehoff: I don't think so, no.
21:09 harry-wood It's probably ok
21:09 JonathanB It's just collected statistics about Twitter and Facebook traffic.
21:09 harry-wood very cacheable information. I imagine it'll scale ok
21:09 toffehoff What's behind the login?
21:09 JonathanB Mostly just admin stuff
21:10 JonathanB Adding and removing accounts to track, that kind of thing
21:10 toffehoff ok
21:10 rweait1 Call this one closed / complete then? :-)
21:10 JonathanB You can have a login if you really want.
21:10 toffehoff If it's only admin stuff… neah
21:10 JonathanB rweait1: Yes -- I'll keep an eye on new features that get added and request upgrades from Tom/OWG as appropriate.
21:10 rweait1 Anybody have any new press contacts to report / add to the list?
21:11 harry-wood I like it. it's of interest to the community of people who are interested in communicating
21:11 rweait1 excellent, thank you JonathanB
21:11 toffehoff +1
21:11 rweait1 I have my two that I still haven't added to the gpage.
21:12 rweait1 (Two press contacts)
21:12 toffehoff Shall I move the gDoc to the OSMF-domain?
21:12 rweait1 still waiting on propose / second for minutes of last week.
21:12 toffehoff I propose
21:12 rweait1 toffehoff: sounds good.
21:13 rweait1 And we have fund raiser. Is everybody doing something to pass that message around and keep it current?
21:13 rweait1 That's the end of the tasks from last week.
21:13 toffehoff Had a presentation in NL last saturday. mentioned it there as well.
21:14 rweait1 Good. Shall we carry both of those over for even more action this week?
21:14 rweait1 :-)
21:14 toffehoff Until we've reached our goal: yes.
21:14 rweait1 Also the pres contacts.
21:14 toffehoff 68.82%
21:14 rweait1 nice.
21:15 rweait1 any new topics for today? I have one point for discussion but it can be deferred to email if needed.
21:15 toffehoff press contacts is an on-going thing.
21:15 toffehoff Representation on MT
21:15 toffehoff Management Team that is.
21:16 rweait1 You volunteering toffehoff
21:16 rweait1 ?
21:16 toffehoff no really :-)
21:16 rweait1 Don't you have to be there anyways? :-)
21:16 toffehoff I don't like having people on the MT representing multiple WG's
21:17 rweait1 I'm not willing. LWG responsibilities are picking up.
21:17 toffehoff JonathanB: interested
21:17 toffehoff ?
21:18 rweait1 Let's have a vote, but firstI would like to note that RichardF is out of the room and therefore I nominate him. :-)
21:18 toffehoff :-)
21:18 JonathanB Not keen -- not sure I would be able to make the commitment right now
21:18 toffehoff We could have a rotating representation?
21:18 rweait1 Okay, that's all four of us too busy, not willing.
21:19 toffehoff Since I'm already there I can step in on behalf of CWG when someone else cannot make it.
21:19 toffehoff I can check with RichardF ....
21:20 rweait1 I think our only ongoing action for MT is to request that other groups communicate, and help if we can...
21:20 rweait1 Let's go over this again next week.
21:20 toffehoff ok
21:20 toffehoff Other subject: I've send you all a link to a gDoc presentation.....
21:21 rweait1 I hate gdocs and sorting out multiple accounts / permissions. (Just thought I'd throw that in there.)
21:22 JonathanB +1
21:22 toffehoff rweait1: you've got permission now.
21:22 rweait1 ty
21:22 JonathanB toffehoff: jonobennett@gmail.com please
21:23 toffehoff done.
21:23 JonathanB Ta
21:23 rweait1 can we review this off-line and respond during the week?
21:23 toffehoff hmmmm. apparently inviting communication@osmfoundation.org didn't work...
21:23 rweait1 It only arrived a few hours ago. :-)
21:24 harry-wood I got it
21:24 toffehoff Oh sure, but I may be an idea to quickly go through it.
21:24 rweait1 Want to lead us through it in ten minutes?
21:24 toffehoff So I can give some feedback on what I actually meant.
21:24 toffehoff Lemme try.
21:25 toffehoff rearranging windows on my screen.
21:25 toffehoff slide 1 is obvious.
21:26 toffehoff 2: please add things that are missing
21:26 toffehoff 3: obvious
21:26 toffehoff 4: Some stats
21:27 toffehoff 5: Identifying some groups of people we want to communicate with.
21:27 toffehoff They may need a specific message....
21:27 toffehoff 6: What are we using. Each channel has it's own charateristic
21:28 toffehoff Should we use these channels for specific audiences?
21:28 toffehoff Something to think about
21:28 toffehoff 7: could we be using other media?
21:28 toffehoff 8: a very personal observation
21:29 toffehoff We may want to tune each of our channels with a specific tone-of-voice.
21:29 toffehoff One more casual. The other a more formal for instance.
21:30 toffehoff 9: That occurred to me during our fund-raiser.
21:30 harry-wood We CWG or "We" all OSMers?
21:31 toffehoff we is primarily CWG
21:31 harry-wood I mean. obviously all OSMers will communicate on these channels
21:31 toffehoff Not the blog eg.
21:31 toffehoff Yes, we not have (do not want to) control over all channels.
21:32 toffehoff Forum, mailing list etc are ideal for communicating with our community.
21:32 rweait1 Are there any actions that your document is suggestion we should take?
21:32 toffehoff To reach the people who are interested in OSM (but not community), they may look at other places
21:33 toffehoff A suggestion would be to identify who our audience for our e.g. blogs are.
21:33 toffehoff We may need to have different texts on the blog than on the mailinglist.
21:34 rweait1 For instance, we don't have a policy on tone of voice, but perhaps we have effective default tones of voice in some channels. Do you need to clarify something wrt tone, or do we need to fix something?
21:34 toffehoff I do not mean to say that in all places things are wrong.
21:35 toffehoff Identifying which channels are working OK is also good.
21:35 rweait1 Do you have any thoughts on that?
21:35 toffehoff I think the mailing list and forum and IRC are fine.
21:35 rweait1 As a newcomer to CWG, you fresh eyes are a welcome perspective. How are we for tone, and effectiveness on each channel (or jsut one)?
21:35 toffehoff That's community, that should have that warm friend-amongst each other feeling.
21:36 rweait1 How about the blog?
21:36 toffehoff Take the donation drive as an example.
21:37 toffehoff On the mailing list, wiki, forum etc, we are primary taking to the in crowd.
21:37 toffehoff There we need to talk a bit more in detail about what's going on.
21:37 harry-wood Is there a need for a publication script? (slide 9) Do you mean a set of actions we step through to make announcements?
21:37 toffehoff we want to by a server, etc
21:38 toffehoff On the blog, you also need to thing about other people who are reading that.
21:38 toffehoff So, you might want to tune the message to a bit more into a promotional message.
21:39 toffehoff harry-wood: yes.
21:39 toffehoff Like a check-list.
21:39 toffehoff Have we thought of everything.
21:39 harry-wood seen the pingbacks on the blog post: http://blog.osmfoundation.org/2011/12/01/funding-drive/#comments
21:39 harry-wood ?
21:40 toffehoff I do now :-)
21:40 harry-wood Maybe Ivan Sanchez is kicking ass a publicising it. A few spanish/latin language blog posts
21:41 JonathanB Certainly the whole multilingual thing is something we could be slicker with, but it needs bodies.
21:41 rweait1 Okay, shall we continue this one during the week and find where we want further analysis, and where we need actions?
21:41 toffehoff Sure. And add comments if needed to the doc
21:42 rweait1 toffehoff can you continue to lead this topic?
21:42 harry-wood Question: Can we ask our translators to translate that particular blog post?
21:42 rweait1 Yes.
21:42 rweait1 also the "about" page, I think? :-)
21:43 harry-wood Dont want to pester them but, but that post is a priority. The 'about' page is important in a more long lasting sense
21:43 rweait1 re translators, I think we want more than one per language to share the load.
21:43 toffehoff +1
21:44 rweait1 How do we implement this so we don't get double-transations? count on them working it out between themselves?
21:44 toffehoff It might help to have some page in a specific language to attract more people willing to translate.
21:44 rweait1 I think so.
21:44 rweait1 How about the budget. any thoughts? Las topic for today.
21:45 rweait1 I'll continue with the current translators, while toffehoff continues to find new ones. Sound good?
21:45 harry-wood We need to at least introduce the same language translator to eachother. Ask them to discuss between themselves
21:45 toffehoff ok
21:45 rweait1 harry-wood: +1
21:45 rweait1 no duplicates yet.
21:45 JonathanB Would the idea of some pro translation be too much?
21:46 harry-wood pro translation?
21:46 JonathanB Professional. Paid for.
21:46 rweait1 JonathanB: perhaps if we find that the community-well is dry. Did you have a specific task in mind?
21:46 rweait1 cuz those pro Klingon translators are expensive.
21:46 JonathanB Just the general principle more than anything
21:47 toffehoff If the community-well is dry, we could start off with putting bounties on them....
21:47 JonathanB It could get us out of a hole if we find ourselves in one.
21:48 rweait1 hmm, If we are going to pay translators, we can start by paying our volunteers. Some of them have been trasnalting for half a year now, I think?
21:48 harry-wood There's a way to figure out good translators I think via the wiki. As I said last time
21:48 rweait1 I'd like to resist a pro / community split for translators.
21:48 rweait1 On the other hand we had a specific need for legal translation on LWG, and paid for it.
21:48 toffehoff I'd go with the community first (read: free)
21:49 toffehoff if we want something specific translated and we cannot find one, we could offer some money to community members.
21:49 toffehoff If that doesn't work, we could go pro.
21:50 rweait1 So about pro-translators? "perhaps, but not now." Is that about it? Counter arguments?
21:50 toffehoff (or pushing our pages through Google translate.
21:50 rweait1 ick.
21:50 rweait1 :-)
21:50 JonathanB No. For the love of God, no.
21:50 rweait1 Other items regarding the budget?
21:50 toffehoff To be honest, they are getting better...
21:51 harry-wood budget?
21:51 toffehoff The last thing I mention in my slides is a marketing campaign.
21:51 harry-wood We were talking last time about no really needing a budget
21:51 toffehoff It may take a bit of money to start this of (not serious money though)
21:52 rweait1 What are you thinking toffehoff, re: marketing? Hire an MBA? a marketing firm?
21:52 toffehoff It might just work with the 1k
21:52 toffehoff Ah, no, not hiring people.
21:53 toffehoff Like: we want to have stickers, a billboard, etc
21:53 toffehoff Or if e.g. OSM japan wants to do some promotion it can apply for some funds.
21:54 toffehoff to be able to print stuff etc.
21:54 rweait1 others in the community have tried stickers, fliers. Have they been effective? Effective at what? How does that meet our goals?
21:54 rweait1 billboard? "no" from me. Too local. too expensive per person.
21:55 toffehoff With stickers: I was thinking about something I see on windows of restaurants.
21:55 toffehoff I'm on …..
21:55 rweait1 sure cloudmade had some of those.
21:55 toffehoff I can be found on OSM
21:56 toffehoff Could be. I don't know what CM have done on marketing .....
21:56 harry-wood I have one on my house :-)
21:56 toffehoff Could be. I don't know what CM have done on marketing …..
21:56 rweait1 Distribution is a similar problem as with fliers.
21:56 toffehoff The problem now is:
21:57 toffehoff We do not have a worked-out plan.
21:57 toffehoff We may want to do something this coming year.
21:57 toffehoff We could put something in our budget for marketing.
21:57 toffehoff We can figure the details out later.
21:57 harry-wood yeah. I'd agree it's probably the job of CWG to work out a plan for that
21:57 rweait1 okay, how about greeting cards, post cards. We can send a card to thank each donor (we have the addresses I think) and we can send a card to each translator.
21:58 toffehoff Great plan!
21:58 rweait1 and use a community "contest" to design the cards.
21:58 toffehoff …. how are you going to get the addresses?
21:58 harry-wood do we have the addresses?
21:58 rweait1 small printing budget. High cache value.
21:58 rweait1 I don't know. Firefishy would know. I can ask
21:59 harry-wood paypal has the addresses. Not sure if we do
21:59 harry-wood it could be good. It's certainly the kind of thing a big charity would do
21:59 toffehoff Something to work out later.
21:59 toffehoff Bottomline: let's do it!
22:00 harry-wood start spamming via snail-mail when you have an address to spam
22:00 harry-wood the counter-argument being… it's a waste of money
22:00 rweait1 Okay, who wants to lead this and when do we kcik it off? New year? After the donation drive ends?
22:00 harry-wood chances of organising a postal response before xmas are minimal
22:01 rweait1 I'm just talking about the contest to design the cards...
22:01 rweait1 pick your favourite mapnik tiles to feature ...
22:01 toffehoff rweait1: could you start with a gDoc outlining the idea and steps needed to work this out.
22:01 toffehoff then we can all pitch in.
22:01 rweait1 Can do, unless anybody else wants it.
22:02 harry-wood Ease of posting to donors might depend on which country they're in
22:02 toffehoff It's your idea. You're the first to claim it :-)
22:02 harry-wood but it's dependant on having their addresses anyway of course
22:02 rweait1 yes.
22:02 harry-wood I quite like the idea on the whole though
22:03 harry-wood it's one of those things which *some* people will find cause to whinge about, but on the whole it makes OpenStreetMap look that little bit more mature
22:03 rweait1 okay, we're over time. anything we need to do before we wrap up?
22:04 toffehoff the EWG request from RichardF?
22:04 rweait1 Right.
22:04 toffehoff top ten tasks
22:04 rweait1 +1 we do it.
22:04 toffehoff +1
22:04 rweait1 it's our mandate
22:04 rweait1 Volunteer? I'll take it unless somebody wants it
22:05 toffehoff Enjoy yourself!
22:05 toffehoff :-)
22:05 harry-wood just read the email now
22:05 harry-wood looks good
22:05 rweait1 Timing?
22:05 rweait1 Do it in the middle of the campaign and use it as a reminder?
22:05 toffehoff We do not have anything else at the moment?
22:05 harry-wood Another round of blogging by committee? I suggest rweait goes ahead and posts something :-)
22:06 harry-wood Find the details from EWG first perhaps
22:06 rweait1 okay, anything else beofre we wrap. the small one I had we'll do by email.
22:06 rweait1 harry-wood, yes, I will.
22:06 toffehoff thanks richard
22:06 harry-wood kick ass
22:07 rweait1 Thanks everybody. Need a second for the minutes of last week!!!!
22:07 harry-wood I second
22:07 rweait1 Thankyou.
22:07 rweait1 and thank you for handling the minutes so ably!
22:07 toffehoff Next week, same time and place?
22:08 rweait1 +1
22:08 harry-wood well this week… I joined half a minute late. Should someone else paste the IRC log?
22:08 rweait1 are you guys still here? :-)
22:08 rweait1 shall do.
22:08 rweait1 nah. You missed nothing.
22:08 rweait1 go ahead.
22:08 rweait1 we only wondered where you were? :-)
22:08 harry-wood oh ok
22:09 toffehoff Have a good one this week!
22:12 harry-wood yes have a good one!