CWG meeting 2011-11-21

From OpenStreetMap Foundation

Communication Working Group meeting on 21st November 2011


  • Richard Weait
  • Richard Fairhurst
  • Harry Wood
  • Jonathan Bennett
  • Henk Hoff

Observers invited from #osm:


  • Communicating a fundraising drive
  • Blog translations
  • Board F2F goals
  • management team update
  • email from OSM contributor

Old Actions

  • Oliver communicate end of year financials (done)
  • Henk email the Management Team well in advance of wednesday's meeting to ensure it goes to plan. (done)
  • Henk move himself and Oliver to the right mailing groups (done)
  • Richard Weait to blog about license changeover (done)
  • RichardW to reply to contributor re domain name

New Actions

  • Draft blog re Audacious Goals
  • All to look at board Audacious Goals and come back with workable actions.
  • Henk to clean up CWG list (HC)
  • RichardW post financials to talk
  • Harry talk to Grant about repositioning -> and perhaps commence work on mods to the skin
  • Harry (ongoing) test options for an email subscription wordpress plugin and then talk to Grant about that too

IRC log

<toffehoff> Should the list of attendees be updated with the people present?
<toffehoff> (of the previous CWG minutes I mean...)
<RichardW> sure, who was there.
<harry-wood1> I just added henk
<toffehoff> Oliver was there for the first half.
<harry-wood1> I just added Oliver too
<RichardW> anything else for the old minutes before we can accept them?
<toffehoff> there were some other people present as well, but not really participating ....
<toffehoff> Nothing else from me.
<RichardW> ping observers, anonymouse, twain47, blackadder, TomH,
<mackerski> Ignore me, I'm irrelevant
<RichardW> Propose and second for the old munites?
<RichardW> Welcome, mackerski
<toffehoff> I'm happy to propose...
<harry-wood1> I second
<RichardW> Thank you, both.
<RichardW> Any new topics for today?
<toffehoff> board f2f goals?
<RichardW> okay, any others?
<toffehoff> budget for next year?
<harry-wood1> had the management meeting. So we can go over anthing needing going over from that email I sent
<RichardW> excellent
<harry-wood1> There's the "Night of the living maps" email from mattias
<RichardW> anything else before we go over tasks from last week?
<toffehoff> Anything we need to know about the license mailing?
<toffehoff> Or just leave that with LWG?
<RichardW> LWG
<toffehoff> ok
<RichardW> How did we all do on our tasks from last week?
<harry-wood1> Me… not very well
<harry-wood1> Although I did things which weren't on the list :-)

  • toffehoff has changed the mailinglist entries for Oliver and me.

<RichardW> Oliver has posted the financials, so It's up to us to talk about it now.
<RichardW> harry-wood, push yours to next week?
<harry-wood1> "talk about it" as in further blog posts / communications about it?
<RichardW> Perhaps. Is it enough that the financials are posted? Perhaps so. *dusts hands* that's another one finished.

  • toffehoff as capitalized Grant's name for easier reading of the task list.

<harry-wood1> Are the financials posted to the mailing list too?
<harry-wood1> or just on the wiki?
<toffehoff> Is there anything to communicate about the financials?
<RichardW> Just wiki so far. Thoughts?
<harry-wood1> might as well fire a quick link on the mailing list I think
<toffehoff> What do we want to achieve with this?
<harry-wood1> we want to be seen to be publishing the things which we are supposed to publish
<RichardW> "Hi all. The financials are up <link>"
<RichardW> No need to make it all fancy.
<toffehoff> sounds good to me.
<harry-wood1> yup
<RichardW> I'll take that i guess.
<RichardW> harry-wood, you had two tasks from last week. Push them both to next week?
<toffehoff> thanks!
<RichardW> Want any help?
<harry-wood1> I will try to discuss the wordpress things with grant at the hack weekend, however I've got quite a long list of things for the hack weekend, and I'm sure grant has too.
<RichardW> true.
<harry-wood1> I dont see it as urgent, although it would good for the translations to catch up a bit
<RichardW> 'til then we can ping them individually.
<harry-wood1> bit of a boring task translating old news though I suppose
<RichardW> it's important though. The translated blogs are being read.
<RichardW> So we are helping to reach beyond english only.
<RichardW> can we add more languages without bugging Grant?
<toffehoff> Would it be an idea to the a google translate button at each page?
<harry-wood1> ermm.. think so
<RichardW> toffehoff: we already have a mechanism.
<harry-wood1> Used to be able to with the way the plugin used to work. We probably still can yes
<RichardW> okay. Next topic, I guess.
<RichardW> what do you think F2F first or MT update?
<toffehoff> MT update first....
<RichardW> What news from the board? How does the F2F effect CWG?
<RichardW> er, okay, MT update!
<harry-wood1> There's a new action for henk just come in… Remove hurricane from the CWG mailing group :-)
<toffehoff> harry-wood1: will do.
<toffehoff> RichardW: send an e-mail less than an hour ago....
<toffehoff> to communication@
<harry-wood1> They're related actually because the most of the management team discussion was about the board face to face stuff
<RichardW> okay, any comments to go with the audacious golas from the board?
<harry-wood1> How many twitter followers???
<toffehoff> Yep :-)
<RichardF> hello. sorry for being late :)
<harry-wood1> Hi RichardF
<RichardW> they said, "audacious." we supposed to be inspired, so no giggling. :-)
<toffehoff> Hi
<harry-wood1> You're just in time to tell us how we can get OSM on the front page of the New York Times
<harry-wood1> maybe we'll have to work up to that one
<RichardF> marry a celebrity?
<RichardF> (or hack someone's phones?)
<harry-wood1> Yeah. that's true. We should go for celebrity tie-ins
<RichardW> So any actions we need to take now, or add to our regular meetings on these, or shoud we think on them for a week?
<RichardF> do we want to have an audacity discussion now?
<RichardW> Let's task everyone to read and understand the board goals and come back with point that move us towards them.
<RichardW> where point should be "points"
<harry-wood1> I suppose one observation is that they're all relating to promotion
<harry-wood1> rather than other aspects of communication
<toffehoff> Good observation.
<RichardW> Or milestones, if you don't care how you get to the front pages, we could assign EWG to hack it.
<RichardW> Next topic then?
<RichardW> or is there anything we need to do NOW onthat stuff?
<toffehoff> We need to start thinking about our budget for next year.
<JonathanB> No -- they're too long-term to get excited about right away
<toffehoff> If we wanna have one....
<harry-wood1> CWG budget?
<toffehoff> yes
<RichardW> Same budget as last year?
<toffehoff> Which is none?
<RichardW> Yup.
<harry-wood1> What would we spend it on?
<RichardW> Do we need a CWG boondoggle retreat?
<RichardW> I hear the Maldives are nice, and need mapping.
<RichardF> if one were minded to do so, you could of course spend £££ on adverts.
<toffehoff> We could buy google adds?
<harry-wood1> could be good to make translations of leaflets… get them printed and posted
<JonathanB> +1 to harry-wood1
<toffehoff> Have promo-package to all new members.
<toffehoff> My suggestions are purely mine, not the board (just to be clear)
<harry-wood1> I remember a discussion where that was suggested, but others felt it was a waste of donated money
<RichardF> generally I wouldn't recommend ads except for very targeted campaigns
<JonathanB> You have to decide what your goals are -- assume ours are to grow the number of contributors
<JonathanB> either directly or indirectly
<harry-wood1> promo packages would help in a lot of cases I think.
<harry-wood1> As in.. I think a lot of OSMF memebers and potential members would like it
<harry-wood1> but some would see it as a waste of money
<RichardW> so how do we test it and find out how much it helps, and how much it costs?
<RichardW> can Germany tell us the cost and benefits with their flyer?
<toffehoff> We could leave this to next week and all come up with things we could be doing next year.
<RichardW> Good.
<JonathanB> RichardW: The one Frederik got his publishers to fund?
<RichardW> MT update. Anything there?
<harry-wood1> well as I say, it was mostly F2F related
<harry-wood1> there was a mention of an F2F discussion about moderation
<harry-wood1> no particular request to relay that to CWG, but it seems very CWG related
<RichardW> what about the fund raising? We've been wiating to hear on that.
<harry-wood1> yes. I have an update on that
<harry-wood1> but not because of the MT
<harry-wood1> I actually went along to OWG meeting last week
<RichardW> Did MT take a position on it or are we free to go?
<harry-wood1> yes. free to go
<RichardW> I dont mean to jump around. Anything from MT for CWG?
<toffehoff> With the MT in a coordinating role....
<harry-wood1> and I think we need to get going on it now
<harry-wood1> so OWG said they'll be placing an order for the server imminently
<harry-wood1> and it will arrive in about a months time
<harry-wood1> there's no need for this to overlap directly with the fund raising drive… it just makes for a better story to tell
<RichardF> ok. what's the narrative for "this is why the server is needed"?
<harry-wood1> unfortunately it's not actually very exciting. They plan is essentially to get it as a back-up for the DB server
<harry-wood1> but they plan to run some experiments on it, and eventually maybe load-balance between existing and new machine
<RichardF> a backup for the database is pretty compelling.
<RichardW> toffehoff: is MT really to be coordinating this? How? When does CWG have to consult MT? or can CWG just do this now that we;ve been given permission?
<toffehoff> Coordinating means that not every WG is going to run its own fundraiser without knowing of eachother actions.
<harry-wood1> I think we have all the permission and go-ahead we're going to get
<toffehoff> Yes.
<RichardW> So now that THIS fundraiser is okay, MT is done. We don't to go begging to them for every blog post?
<harry-wood1> grant has technical bits ready to drop in place for showing a donations progress bar etc on
<RichardW> was there any talk at MT of any other fundraisers, so that we can tie them together?
<toffehoff> RichardW: I don't understand you ....
<toffehoff> No, there are no other fundraiser at the moment.
<toffehoff> The tie-ing together is the coordinating role of MT.
<harry-wood1> I suggested to the OWG guys (Andy Allen, TomH, Grant, Matt) that maybe the target amount should be more than £15,000
<harry-wood1> they seemed keen to stick with that amount though
<RichardW> RichardF, harry-wood1, can you create a compeling story for the new server to inspire the donation drive?
<harry-wood1> Yes I can work on that
<harry-wood1> Will do as a google doc and see if OWG guys want to chip anything in
<RichardW> maybe roll that out with a blog this week (Grant's graphs willing)
<harry-wood1> yes. I'll check with grant if that's in place, and then full steam ahead!
<RichardW> excellent/
<RichardF> happy to work on that too.
<harry-wood1> ok. Will share the doc with you too (and all CWG)
<RichardW> anything to update on social media?
<RichardW> quiet this week on FB
<RichardF> on Twitter too. Always keen to receive suggestions for exciting things we can tweet :)
<JonathanB> I'm checking out some Social Media monitoring software called ThinkUp -- too early to report
<harry-wood1> ooh
<RichardW> any interest from other groups at MT in publicising their messages more widely? Any of them interested in posting things?
<RichardW> Any news from EWG or dev to publish?
<harry-wood1> I mentioned that a general thing for everyone to do more of
<toffehoff> The board's F2F is now up on :-)
<RichardW> excellent, thank you toffeehoff
<RichardF> +1
<toffehoff> It may have some quotes for a blog post.....
<harry-wood1> here you mean?:
<toffehoff> yup
<RichardW> Let's draft something during the week for next week that presents the Audacious Goals in a good light.
<harry-wood1> I wonder if wikipedia has ever been on the front page of the new york times? :-)
<toffehoff> The board has called the "audacious" for a reason :-)
<RichardW> :-) we'll want to fact-check that for next week.
<RichardF> harry-wood1: probably not in a good light...
<RichardW> okay, anything else or are we done for today?
<toffehoff> Something to think about ....
<toffehoff> Should we also have a sort of face-to-face some time?
<toffehoff> Could be during a SotM....

  • RichardF placed a story in the Mail once - would have got into the Times too were it not for Cherie Blair getting pregnant :(

<toffehoff> Expecially for making plans for next year ... having a brainstorm session for a couple of hours might get some new things...
<RichardW> We're supposed to be the CWG. If we can't "C" without being face to face we shold find another "G" to "W" on.
<RichardW> toffehoff are you suggesting that we need a F@F now, or not until SotM?
<toffehoff> Communicating is something different than setting up a plan what we want to communicate about, how often, which media, which audience etc
<toffehoff> For day-to-day business these IRC meetings are just great.
<RichardW> yes, we should see if we can actually manage to complete that day to day business.
<toffehoff> But once in a while sitting together for a day, helps in setting out a strategy on what to do.
<RichardF> all are welcome at the Hack Weekend this weekend... ;)
<toffehoff> How many of us are at the hack weekend?
<RichardF> of CWG? just myself and Harry, I suspect.
<harry-wood1> me just on Saturday

  • JonathanB can't make it :(

<RichardW> Any other topics for today then?
<harry-wood1> There's Matthias' email
<RichardW> Ah, right.
<RichardW> Has everybody seen it?
<toffehoff> yes
<RichardW> thoughts?
<toffehoff> (not want to speak on behalf of everyone though....)
<harry-wood1> Interesting question tucked away in there. Does CWG want to get involved in registering domain names for litte sub-projects?
<RichardF> I don't think it's appropriate for an OSMF initiative. But if he wants to organise it under his own steam and apply to CWG for £10 for the domain name, I wouldn't have an objection.
<RichardW> i think that sub-question is simple. No.

      • fake_mackerski [] has joined #osm-strategic

<RichardF> but on a broad theme, I don't think CWG's resources are best devoted to "LAN-parties for GIS-freaks".
<RichardF> we're meant to be reaching out, not in.
<RichardW> Is there anything in his request that he can't do with dev, and the wiki?
<toffehoff> Should we kick it to EWG then?
<JonathanB> It's exactly the sort of thing that should be organised by the community -- it doesn't need OSMF help.
<RichardF> exactly.
<harry-wood1> unless we want to fund a domain name
<toffehoff> the question is only to fund the domain name.....
<toffehoff> (that's how I understood it).
<JonathanB> I think that's a risky precedent to set.
<harry-wood1> I kind of thought there's probably things within OSM which are more deserving of their own domain name
<RichardW> Do we need to vote on this?
<toffehoff> Is it for us to decide?
<harry-wood1> risky precedent perhaps yes
<JonathanB> Surely at present CWG doesn't *have* any money to fund this?
<toffehoff> If it's something like " LAN-parties for GIS-freaks" it may also fall into the scope of the Engineering WG....
<JonathanB> I think it's more just intended to be an all-night mapathon
<RichardW> it falls into the scope of harming OSM
<RichardW> go outside. Survey.
<toffehoff> From a communication point of view?
<harry-wood1> it is about mapping rather than developing. EWG is about developing, internal or OSM *usage*
<RichardW> yes.
<RichardW> So fnud his domain or no?
<harry-wood1> Mathias is very enthusiastic, and it would be good to harness that somehow, but there's issues with his idea
<toffehoff> I would say yes, but not from a CWG perspective....
<harry-wood1> and I sort of wonder whether he's the man to pull it off
<RichardW> +1 buy the domain, or -1 do not buy it.
<JonathanB> -1
<RichardF> abstain.
<harry-wood1> dunno. can't decide
<RichardW> -1
<toffehoff> +1
<RichardW> Anybody else?
<RichardW> The "no"s have it.
<harry-wood1> of course we can offer him '' without cost
<harry-wood1> except time spent asking TomH/grant to set it up
<RichardW> ... etc.
<toffehoff> come on!
<RichardF> I think the sysadmins are cautious about setting up too many subdomains, and with good reason.
<toffehoff> So we can (!) do but not buy the domain:
<toffehoff> ?
<RichardF> ok, decision taken.
<JonathanB> The success of this plan isn't going to hinge on whichever domain it does or doesn't have.
<RichardW> toffehoff, I think RichardF suggests that we should not do
<RichardW> But dev is a good place for that.
<toffehoff> So what's our message?
<toffehoff> We don't support it, but we allow it on dev?
<RichardW> to matthias? I'll respond if you like.
<RichardF> no, hang on.
<RichardF> Matthias has asked for the domain name to be funded.
<RichardF> CWG has decided no.
<RichardF> that is all. hosting on dev@ is out-of-scope, he hasn't asked for that.
<RichardF> if he wants to approach OWG on hosting, that's fine; in fact I doubt he even would need to do that, dev space is widely available.
<RichardF> but regardless, that's out of scope for CWG.
<RichardF> item concluded?
<RichardW> any other topics?
<RichardW> move to adjourn then?
<toffehoff> sure
<JonathanB> +1
<RichardW> same time next week everybody?