CWG meeting 2011-11-07

Communication Working Group meeting on 7th October 2011

Attendees

Richard Weait
Richard Fairhurst
Harry Wood
Jonathan Bennett

Staying quite quiet:

Chillly
pnorman
HannesHH

Topics

FB merge done & Google+ page created
Communicating a fundraising drive
Communicating board face to face meeting
Blog translations
Merging OpenGeoData.org and OSMF blogs
dev/EWG blogging

IRC log

(8:56:59 PM) rweait1: I think that's everybody who we are expecting.
(8:57:01 PM) rweait1: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2011-10-31
(8:57:12 PM) rweait1: previous minutes for consideration ^^
(8:57:22 PM) rweait1: welcome, observer pnorman.
(8:58:07 PM) harry-wood: hello
(8:58:23 PM) rweait1: and I should aplogize for messing up the time today.
(8:58:46 PM) harry-wood: isn't this the agreed time?
(8:58:47 PM) rweait1: Apparently, we agreed on 2000 UTC last week. But here we are at 2100H
(8:59:00 PM) ***RichardF_ is perpetually befuddled by timezones
(8:59:09 PM) JonathanB: We did, but as long as it doesn't end up as 1900UTC I'm good.
(8:59:14 PM) rweait1: So, what do we want to do for next and future weeks? :-)
(8:59:42 PM) harry-wood: hmmm. I suppose this time is slightly better for me, but I'm easy
(8:59:59 PM) harry-wood: 9pm here. Dinner has been eaten
(9:00:12 PM) rweait1: previous minutes seem uncontroversial. Can I get a proposal and a second?
(9:00:22 PM) JonathanB: Proposed
(9:00:54 PM) rweait1: So pending Oliver's opinion, shall we stick with 2100 for two-in-a-row? :-)
(9:01:35 PM) rweait1: Can I get a +1 / 0 / -1 on the time please?
(9:02:21 PM) harry-wood: now by that do you mean +1 on the time or +1 agreement? :-)
(9:02:35 PM) ***JonathanB votes for 2100UTC
(9:02:36 PM) rweait1: agreement:-)
(9:02:43 PM) chillly [~chris@adsl-87-102-122-52.karoo.kcom.com] entered the room.
(9:02:54 PM) rweait1: welcome observer chillly.
(9:02:58 PM) chillly: hi
(9:03:19 PM) rweait1: Okay, before we go over tasks, do we have any new topics to discuss during this meeting?
(9:03:37 PM) harry-wood: translations of blog posts
(9:03:44 PM) rweait1: on the list.
(9:04:33 PM) rweait1: Okay, tasks. JonathanB, re: FB merge?
(9:04:38 PM) HannesHH [~HannesHH@d096166.adsl.hansenet.de] entered the room.
(9:04:45 PM) JonathanB: Done and dusted. No apparent mishaps.
(9:04:50 PM) rweait1: welcome HannesHH
(9:04:58 PM) HannesHH: hi, i am just playing peekaboo
(9:05:00 PM) rweait1: the merge is complete then? Nice.
(9:05:22 PM) rweait1: Tile usage blog post.
(9:05:22 PM) rweait1: That's me and also done and dusted.
(9:05:30 PM) RichardF_: F2F comms (though I haven't really got a whole bunch to say)
(9:05:36 PM) RichardF_: development comms
(9:05:55 PM) rweait1: Okay, let's put bothof those on the list as well.
(9:06:02 PM) RichardF_: and at some point - don't mind if it's today or in the future - we need to talk about merging blog.osmf.org and opengeodata
(9:06:07 PM) rweait1: MGMT team reporting, harry-wood?
(9:06:23 PM) rweait1: blog and OGD, okay.
(9:06:50 PM) harry-wood: Management team was delayed again
(9:07:17 PM) rweait1: okay, next scheduled mgmt is when?
(9:07:32 PM) harry-wood: Wed 16th
(9:07:47 PM) rweait1: okay, so you can let us know in two weeks?
(9:08:20 PM) rweait1: Communicating fundraising drive. Was that JonathanB?
(9:08:40 PM) rweait1: re: coordinating with OWG and board / mgmt
(9:08:43 PM) JonathanB: It was -- we're waiting on board approval for the drive itself, AFAIK
(9:09:07 PM) harry-wood: So we'll be trying to put communication habits in place more before during & after management meetings.
(9:09:31 PM) harry-wood: The fundraising drive is something I told the management team i would start discussing with CWG
(9:09:45 PM) harry-wood: anticipating agreement and go-ahead from the board
(9:10:10 PM) harry-wood: So we could start to plan a blog post
(9:10:19 PM) rweait1: just to be clear harry-wood, mgmt is okay with the fund raiser?
(9:10:26 PM) harry-wood: yes
(9:10:34 PM) rweait1: (And gave it to us to communicate?) :-)
(9:10:55 PM) harry-wood: they didn't feel they had the authority to authorise buying a new expensive server
(9:11:07 PM) harry-wood: but we're agreed that it seems like a good idea
(9:11:17 PM) harry-wood: and we're expending the board to give go-ahead
(9:11:32 PM) rweait1: I think that sounds reasonable.
(9:12:00 PM) rweait1: Any reason why we shouldn't proceed with everything (except the announcement) ?
(9:12:16 PM) harry-wood: I will take an action to email OWG (and talk to them in the pub tomorrow) and set up a google doc or something to start drafting a blog post
(9:12:19 PM) rweait1: So we can align with OWG to get goals and draft an announcement
(9:12:24 PM) RichardF_: certainly no reason not to plan in advance.
(9:12:45 PM) harry-wood: Beyond writing a blog post... what else do we need
(9:12:47 PM) harry-wood: ?
(9:12:51 PM) rweait1: JonathanB you were going to talk to OWG too, no?
(9:13:07 PM) rweait1: are the two of you going to gang up on them? :-)
(9:13:10 PM) RichardF_: consider how else we're going to publicise it beyond the blog - Facebook, Twitter, lists, etc...
(9:13:15 PM) RichardF_: do we need to do any external comms?
(9:13:16 PM) JonathanB: Yes -- thrash out the details of what the new server is likely to be used for and turn that into benefits for mappers/users
(9:13:57 PM) rweait1: May I suggest that we have two plans for the board to consider. One for The Next Server, and another for the Next Year of Servers?
(9:14:25 PM) rweait1: I like the idea of being able to deliver the finds OWG needs for more than just one task.
(9:14:32 PM) harry-wood: Are the board meeting in a few days?
(9:14:38 PM) RichardF_: not afaik
(9:14:54 PM) harry-wood: when was it?
(9:14:58 PM) JonathanB: rweait1: A properly publicised campaign will raise more than the target anyway
(9:15:27 PM) RichardF_: harry-wood: last meeting was the face-to-face in Seattle this weekend just gone; if a future meeting date has been set I don't know it
(9:15:34 PM) rweait1: JonathanB. Right, so why not stretch? If the plan is done.
(9:16:06 PM) rweait1: If OWG don't see a need for anything else substantial in the next 6-12 mo, then no need.
(9:16:24 PM) JonathanB: You're thinking something along the lines of "this is how often we've needed a new server in the past, this is what the future looks like"?
(9:17:02 PM) rweait1: More like, if we're going to ask again in eight months, why not ask now?
(9:17:12 PM) harry-wood: I think there was a written plan presented to the board somewhere, but not sure where
(9:17:41 PM) harry-wood: we can ask OWG about this and discuss ways of describing the plan in the blog post
(9:17:48 PM) rweait1: Okay. I'm not married to this idea. Let's see what OWG has to say, and move ahead as much as we can until we hear from BOard.
(9:18:07 PM) rweait1: anything else on fundraising?
(9:18:14 PM) harry-wood: So maybe the board already decided actually
(9:18:26 PM) rweait1: yup. Could be. :-)
(9:18:44 PM) rweait1: Communicating F2F.
(9:18:48 PM) rweait1: That was me.
(9:18:55 PM) harry-wood: indeed that's a logical follow on topic
(9:19:02 PM) rweait1: With the tight timeline, we didn't get a blog out before the F2F.
(9:19:31 PM) rweait1: We're expecting a follow up from Oliver to post afterwards. I think he's travelling today.
(9:19:34 PM) RichardF_: yep. I don't think we'd have managed to get a... hugely enlightening posting to be honest.
(9:19:40 PM) RichardF_: it was a bit open-ended for that.
(9:19:48 PM) harry-wood: Hopefully Oliver relayed our request for some juicey details to communicate benefits now
(9:19:57 PM) RichardF_: I'm meeting up with Matt on Thursday to find out what happened.
(9:20:08 PM) rweait1: excellent.
(9:20:22 PM) rweait1: did you want to send that to the blog?
(9:21:10 PM) RichardF_: I'll tell you when I know!
(9:21:21 PM) HannesHH left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(9:21:36 PM) rweait1: last topic from last week was "communicating financials" That's in progress and we don't expect an answer for another week or two from Oliver.
(9:21:52 PM) rweait1: I think we're up to date now on old business?
(9:22:05 PM) rweait1: Shall we take a quick break to welcome our visitors?
(9:22:17 PM) rweait1: Any comments or questions from our guests?
(9:22:47 PM) rweait1: chillly, pnorman: any thoughts or topics you'd like to put in front of CWG?
(9:22:57 PM) pnorman: Not really. I didn't realize there was a F2F until after it happened
(9:23:20 PM) rweait1: pnorman. Sorry. Our fault. We're trying to do better.
(9:23:56 PM) RichardF_: (it was an OSMF Board face-to-face, for clarification)
(9:24:18 PM) rweait1: New Business: harry-wood you had someting about blog translations?
(9:24:54 PM) harry-wood: Yeah. Well just to repeat the discussion we were having earlier really
(9:25:09 PM) rweait1: Sure.
(9:25:11 PM) harry-wood: we used to have a email pinging feature which let us allocate translation tasks from the blog
(9:25:29 PM) harry-wood: this seems to be no longer available in the newer version of the plugin
(9:26:03 PM) rweait1: Were you going to check with the plugin devs on that?
(9:26:09 PM) harry-wood: so if you look on here: http://blog.osmfoundation.org/
(9:26:18 PM) harry-wood: were a bit behind on the translations
(9:26:31 PM) harry-wood: (change drop-down)
(9:26:40 PM) rweait1: I spoke you Daniel (our french translator) and he's happy to continue.
(9:26:53 PM) rweait1: He just didn't get any notificaitions.
(9:26:58 PM) harry-wood: oh right
(9:27:04 PM) rweait1: So I can ping him manually when I post.
(9:27:23 PM) harry-wood: suppose we could install an email subscribe plugin
(9:27:25 PM) rweait1: Who is doing the German translations?
(9:27:37 PM) harry-wood: just micheal shcultze I think
(9:28:02 PM) harry-wood: We could spread the workload a bit. Rope in some more people
(9:28:13 PM) rweait1: Do you want to look into the email subscribe (then let me know how to use it) :-)
(9:28:41 PM) harry-wood: Well... there's plugins when email the blog contents as they're posted (a kind of subscription)
(9:28:55 PM) harry-wood: if it's just a matter letting them know when there's something new on the blog
(9:29:33 PM) rweait1: Which language(s) should we add next, and who will write them?
(9:29:37 PM) harry-wood: of course if we do rope in more translators, then there's the potential problem of two translators working on similtaneously by mistake
(9:30:19 PM) rweait1: for now we can let the "duelling translators" sort themselves out.
(9:30:36 PM) harry-wood: yes I expect it wouldn't be too much of a problem
(9:30:40 PM) rweait1: We're not drowning in volunteers, though the ones we have are awesome.
(9:31:03 PM) RichardF_: story of OSM's life ;)
(9:31:24 PM) rweait1: okay, any tasks on translation for next week?
(9:31:46 PM) harry-wood: Unfortunately installing email subscription plugin entails pestering firefishy
(9:32:15 PM) harry-wood: but it's probably a very quick job so... I'll go ahead and pester
(9:32:28 PM) rweait1: excellent, thank you harry-wood.
(9:32:54 PM) rweait1: RichardF: you had F2F comms (which we;ve covered) dev comms and merging OGD / osmf-blog
(9:33:03 PM) rweait1: Now you talk.
(9:33:04 PM) RichardF_: yep
(9:33:31 PM) RichardF_: at SWG we suggested that we should shout about what our devs do in terms of improving the site
(9:34:13 PM) rweait1: I like that.
(9:34:22 PM) RichardF_: a) to remind people that the site is always improving and b) to make it clear that we value devs, so we get more
(9:34:37 PM) RichardF_: (and our current wonderful ones stay happy :) )
(9:34:48 PM) harry-wood: need to do a post about some EWG acheivements too
(9:34:50 PM) RichardF_: so Matt has sent us a brief on recent changes
(9:35:04 PM) RichardF_: and I've poshed it up a bit
(9:35:11 PM) RichardF_: and rweait1 will post it...
(9:35:13 PM) harry-wood: cool
(9:35:32 PM) rweait1: harry-wood do you have something from EWG to add?
(9:35:32 PM) RichardF_: so this can become a regular occurrence, I hope!
(9:35:40 PM) rweait1: RichardF: yes please.
(9:35:45 PM) harry-wood: there's a blurry line between EWG (collection of people meeting on IRC) and developers at large
(9:36:10 PM) rweait1: Let's see if we can get EWG SWG, etc to start talking about their successes more often. We can put them on the blog, etc.
(9:36:18 PM) RichardF_: definitely.
(9:36:36 PM) harry-wood: not sure if it's good to chalk up things as acheivements of EWG ... or not
(9:36:42 PM) rweait1: harry-wood: blurry lines are no problem. Everybody wants to know about the successes.
(9:37:18 PM) RichardF_: in the future, we can also use it for developer drives.
(9:37:24 PM) rweait1: maybe we want to go the the OSMF vs OGD talk for a second?
(9:37:32 PM) RichardF_: "we want to build this. can you help?"
(9:37:34 PM) RichardF_: yes, ok
(9:37:42 PM) RichardF_: we have two blogs
(9:37:51 PM) RichardF_: the distinction isn't clear
(9:37:58 PM) rweait1: With the blurry lines, Is EWG worried about taking the credit from an individual?
(9:38:05 PM) RichardF_: and neither of them have OpenStreeetMap in the name :)
(9:38:11 PM) RichardF_: eeeeee
(9:38:21 PM) RichardF_: (blame the iPad)
(9:38:41 PM) JonathanB: e's are good, e's are good...
(9:38:50 PM) RichardF_: I would like to suggest that we consider replacing them both by blog.osm.org or somesuch
(9:39:08 PM) harry-wood: I think it's a good idea.
(9:39:30 PM) harry-wood: the OSMF dislikers will dislike it
(9:39:36 PM) RichardF_: OpenStreetMap is our brand. it should really be in everything we do,
(9:39:39 PM) rweait1: I think blog.osm.org is a natural place to find posts from both OGD and from blog.osmf
(9:40:05 PM) pnorman: harry-wood: Invite them to contribute with good blog posts?
(9:40:10 PM) rweait1: I see the distinction as OSMF Blog is for Official Stuff From (or about) The Foundation
(9:40:27 PM) RichardF_: and if "OSM" tells people about "OSMF", that helps reinforce that the Foundation is a useful part of OSM.
(9:40:36 PM) rweait1: where as OGD is Cool Stuff about OSM (not necessarily Foundation)
(9:40:43 PM) RichardF_: rweait1: yep - but I think we can do that with categories
(9:41:07 PM) RichardF_: like you say, blurry lines are no problem :)
(9:41:15 PM) rweait1: Sure categories are good. We can pipe both sources through bolg.osm.org, or something, no?
(9:41:29 PM) harry-wood: There's a distinction which makes some sense, but on the whole it'd be easier and clearer if there was just one blog
(9:41:39 PM) JonathanB: I should also remind everyone that most of this content will end up being duplicated/repurposed for social networks as well.
(9:41:46 PM) RichardF_: yep
(9:42:00 PM) harry-wood: and reposted to blogs.openstreetmap.org :-)
(9:42:04 PM) RichardF_: blogs are no longer the sole voice
(9:42:33 PM) rweait1: anybody think blog.osm.org is NOT a good idea?
(9:42:51 PM) harry-wood: steve coast might not like it
(9:43:08 PM) harry-wood: for some time I had the impression he was quite protective over OGD as his baby
(9:43:23 PM) rweait1: If it's OGD piped to blog.osm.org, does that matter?
(9:43:27 PM) RichardF_: I volunteer to argue with him if necessary :)
(9:43:43 PM) rweait1: I don't think were talking about stopping OGD, are we?
(9:43:55 PM) harry-wood: rweait: I thought we were talking about that yes
(9:44:03 PM) RichardF_: one blog with one CMS sounds good to me.
(9:44:15 PM) RichardF_: Steve has a personal blog.
(9:44:26 PM) xreal [~mweber@mailgw.FB12.Uni-Dortmund.DE] entered the room.
(9:44:34 PM) RichardF_: ideally RSS from OGD and OSMF should redirect to blog.osm.
(9:44:43 PM) RichardF_: for continuity.
(9:44:52 PM) xreal left the room.
(9:44:56 PM) rweait1: For a while I was the most-frequent poster there, I think Pascal is currently.
(9:45:52 PM) rweait1: I don't mind mirroring stuff or reposting on OGD and another. (But I'd rather not have to do three or four CMSs
(9:46:03 PM) JonathanB: For the sake of clarity we should establish what Steve sees OGD's role as being.
(9:46:17 PM) JonathanB: assuming he's still the owner, as it were.
(9:46:23 PM) rweait1: RichardF: you want to take that to SteveC?
(9:46:59 PM) RichardF_: yep, I'll take that as an action for today
(9:47:14 PM) RichardF_: can I put the body armour on expenses?
(9:47:22 PM) rweait1: :-)
(9:47:44 PM) rweait1: When CWG last looked at this topic we decided to bravely leave things as they were.
(9:47:54 PM) rweait1: God Speed.
(9:47:58 PM) RichardF_: heehee
(9:48:04 PM) rweait1: okay, back to EWG / dev comms?
(9:48:14 PM) RichardF_: ok
(9:48:26 PM) rweait1: Does EWG have anything to report that would be in the Official OSMF category?
(9:48:59 PM) rweait1: Perhaps anything that is running on osm.org?
(9:49:12 PM) rweait1: or are these closer to community announcements?
(9:49:20 PM) RichardF_: both, really.
(9:49:23 PM) harry-wood: Well I was dreaming up a blog post about EWG mentioning a few things as a sort of progress report since they formed
(9:49:43 PM) rweait1: For OGd or OSMF blog? :-)
(9:49:54 PM) harry-wood: OSMF I was thinking
(9:50:09 PM) RichardF_: case proven ;)
(9:50:13 PM) rweait1: Any objections?
(9:50:19 PM) RichardF_: nope
(9:50:29 PM) harry-wood: one thing to mention is the ubuntu packaging work. I understood from Matt that maybe that would come to fruition at some later date
(9:50:44 PM) harry-wood: so timing could be better later
(9:50:52 PM) harry-wood: but I'll chat again with matt about that
(9:51:03 PM) rweait1: Give 'em what you have now. Follow with packaging when it is ready.
(9:51:24 PM) rweait1: iirc mapnik packaging was recenlty improved too.
(9:51:33 PM) harry-wood: the other timing thing is... big hack weekend coming up end of November
(9:51:55 PM) rweait1: Is that an EWG event of sorts?
(9:52:00 PM) RichardF_: could we do a live blog or something as an attention-raising giggle? or live tweeting?
(9:52:07 PM) harry-wood: Blog before that and we can try to attract last minute sign-ups. Blog after that and there'll be more things to mention
(9:52:15 PM) JonathanB: Google+ Hangout!
(9:52:26 PM) rweait1: harry-wood both of those sound good.
(9:52:29 PM) RichardF_: JonathanB: you're scaring me
(9:52:58 PM) rweait1: harry-wood do you need any help with those?
(9:53:23 PM) harry-wood: I'll work on a blog post about EWG, with some help from matt
(9:53:23 PM) rweait1: JonathanB, are you going to be at the hack weekend?
(9:53:43 PM) JonathanB: rweait1: No, unfortunately -- too much family stuff going on
(9:53:49 PM) harry-wood: and I'll time that to be before the hack weekend
(9:54:14 PM) rweait1: I can do something about the hack weekend, unless somebody else wants it. Oh, or is that part of your post, harry-wood?
(9:54:57 PM) harry-wood: Ok I'll do both
(9:55:13 PM) harry-wood: makes sense for it to be someone *at* the hack weekend!
(9:55:23 PM) harry-wood: (although I can only make the Saturday actually)
(9:55:25 PM) rweait1: :-) Wow. So is that it for our list of things for today?
(9:55:43 PM) RichardF_: and just short of the hour! yes, I think so
(9:55:58 PM) JonathanB: One more thing...
(9:55:59 PM) rweait1: Nice. And we are already set for next week.
(9:56:10 PM) rweait1: Sure, JonathanB?
(9:56:33 PM) JonathanB: We have, as of about 15 minutes ago, a Google+ page: https://plus.google.com/111953119785824514010
(9:56:46 PM) rweait1: Nicely done.
(9:56:47 PM) JonathanB: Still trying to figure out how it works, so will report more next week.
(9:56:53 PM) pnorman: < ToeBee> this statement makes me sad though "OpenStreetMap hasn't shared anything with you."
(9:56:56 PM) RichardF_: good work :)
(9:57:00 PM) pnorman: < ToeBee> it's sharing DATA with me!
(9:57:14 PM) rweait1: Should we link that to from FB so that nobody else tries to make a G page?
(9:57:40 PM) JonathanB: rweait1: I'll do that now.
(9:57:49 PM) ***chillly has shared a message about OSM Google+ user, so more will hear about it.
(9:57:59 PM) rweait1: okay, open floor. Any other thoughts / topics?
(9:58:07 PM) rweait1: thanks chillly!
(9:58:33 PM) rweait1: How do we trick our guests into joining CWG and or other WGs?
(9:58:38 PM) chillly: I never see anything useful on OSM twitter. People READ twitter
(9:58:51 PM) rweait1: you mean @openstreetmap ?
(9:59:04 PM) chillly: it gets onto phones etc where blogs don't (too long)
(9:59:18 PM) chillly: yeah
(9:59:20 PM) RichardF_: chillly: we're trying to beef it up but if you have suggestions for things to post - pi me
(9:59:25 PM) rweait1: we talked about that a few weeks ago. Are we waiting on a multi-user thing for that account?
(9:59:25 PM) RichardF_: would be really useful
(9:59:29 PM) chillly: K
(9:59:35 PM) RichardF_: ping I mean :)
(9:59:38 PM) RichardF_: mmmmmm pi
(9:59:52 PM) chillly: I'll pie you next time I see you :)
(10:00:10 PM) rweait1: chillly you are in London?
(10:00:17 PM) chillly: no, Yorkshire
(10:00:27 PM) rweait1: ah, will you be at the hack weekend?
(10:00:48 PM) chillly: no, too far for me
(10:01:23 PM) rweait1: Anything else from anybody before we wrap up?
(10:01:41 PM) rweait1: Oh, can we have a seconder for the old minutes?
(10:01:56 PM) harry-wood: yup 2nded
(10:02:25 PM) rweait1: Thank everybody. See you next week (and on the lists, etc.)
(10:02:28 PM) harry-wood: This week's topics: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2011-11-07
(10:02:44 PM) rweait1: excellent harry-wood and thank you for minding the minutes.
(10:03:01 PM) harry-wood: OK next monday at the same time (9pm London time)
(10:04:18 PM) harry-wood: see you then