CWG meeting 2011-10-17

Communication Working Group meeting on 17th October 2011

Attendees

Richard Fairhurst
Richard Weait
Harry Wood
Jonathan Bennett

Topics

Facebook "openstreetmap" pages. Merging of the two
Baseball project & press releases.
Re-cap on tile abuse blog post & twitter collaboration

Actions

JonathanB keep an eye on the merge options in facebook
someone? check for any photos in the original (Steve's) facebook page which might be unique (not just image of the week copies)
Harry. make a spreadsheet for press contacts
Harry. management meeting this week.
rweait continue working on a blog post about tile abuse

IRC log

(9:02:06 PM) harry-wood: hello
(9:02:29 PM) rweait2: howdy!
(9:03:30 PM) harry-wood: we doing a CWG meeting today? I meant to send a reminder earlier today, but got distracted
(9:03:42 PM) rweait2: That's why I'm here.
(9:03:51 PM) JonathanB: Me too.
(9:03:58 PM) rweait2: We planned it last week, didn't we?
(9:04:07 PM) harry-wood: yup
(9:05:10 PM) harry-wood: previous minutes (IRC log) is here: http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2011-10-10
(9:06:51 PM) harry-wood: there's a missing section actually
(9:07:00 PM) harry-wood: (unless I didn't miss anything)
(9:07:21 PM) rweait2: ?
(9:07:32 PM) harry-wood: missing bit of the IRC log I mean
(9:07:40 PM) ***RichardF waves hello
(9:07:45 PM) harry-wood: hello!
(9:07:53 PM) JonathanB: Evenin'
(9:08:01 PM) rweait2: Ah, not that I recall, harry-wood.
(9:08:22 PM) harry-wood: So last time we tallked about facebook and tiles server issues
(9:08:34 PM) rweait2: I'm happy to propose / second the previous minutes.
(9:08:44 PM) JonathanB: 2nded
(9:08:53 PM) rweait2: objections?
(9:09:10 PM) harry-wood: Jonathan and I have now got admin access on the *original* OpenStreetMap facebook page
(9:09:16 PM) rweait2: yay1
(9:09:18 PM) harry-wood: (SteveC set it for us)
(9:09:39 PM) rweait2: I think I've been added as admin for both of those pages too.
(9:09:41 PM) JonathanB: It may help if we refer to them as "Steve's page" and "Matt's page"
(9:10:21 PM) harry-wood: What's next with that then? D'you think we can merge them somehow?
(9:10:27 PM) JonathanB: Yes we can.
(9:10:34 PM) harry-wood: groovy
(9:10:36 PM) RichardF: apologies for being semi-detached, belated dinner happening here
(9:11:03 PM) JonathanB: We need to make a decision which set of content we want to keep, and which we're happy to discard. Merging pages essentially deletes one page and adds all its followers to the other.
(9:11:15 PM) harry-wood: ah right
(9:11:25 PM) JonathanB: Now Steve's page is the one with the back-history of OGD posts
(9:11:38 PM) JonathanB: and Matt's page only has content from this week as we've been posting it.
(9:11:55 PM) harry-wood: Well I say we nuke Matts page content then
(9:12:11 PM) harry-wood: we can re-post the baseball project post
(9:12:14 PM) rweait2: we should be able to reclaim that from OGD if we need it again? Is Matt's content mostly original?
(9:12:31 PM) harry-wood: it's original, but just one post
(9:12:34 PM) harry-wood: plus comments
(9:12:35 PM) JonathanB: You can't back-post to a FB page.
(9:12:43 PM) rweait2: I haven't had a close look at the history of those pages.
(9:12:54 PM) rweait2: Really, just one? Nuke it.
(9:13:21 PM) rweait2: Can we do the merge without stepping on Matt / Steve's toes? Are they aligned?
(9:13:25 PM) harry-wood: It's the top two links on here we're talking about BTW: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Facebook
(9:13:48 PM) JonathanB: Four, actually: A power outage warning, the Royal Wooton Bassett story, the SAR teams story and Giro d'Italia
(9:13:58 PM) JonathanB: (on Matt's page)
(9:14:49 PM) harry-wood: oh yeah. hmmm
(9:15:20 PM) JonathanB: At the moment I'm only being offered the option of nuking Steve's page and keeping Matt's, but that may be a time-dependent thing.
(9:15:53 PM) harry-wood: You mean you think you'll get the option later to do the reverse?
(9:16:20 PM) JonathanB: Maybe -- Facebook isn't as unified under the covers as its interface leads you to believe, or so I'm told.
(9:17:38 PM) JonathanB: Maybe you could try, harry-wood: Go to Steve's page, click on "Edit info", then click on Resources on the LHS and see if you get a "Merge pages" link under "Develop your page"
(9:17:52 PM) harry-wood: ok
(9:18:46 PM) harry-wood: no. dont see a merge option
(9:19:06 PM) JonathanB: OK -- we can wait a while and see if it appears.
(9:19:35 PM) rweait2: I think that the response to the recent activity on the FB pages has been good.
(9:20:37 PM) harry-wood: OK Let's leave it and see if it appears
(9:20:57 PM) harry-wood: ....although maybe it *is* better to nuke steve content
(9:20:57 PM) rweait2: Check again next week?
(9:21:17 PM) harry-wood: much of a muchness really
(9:21:24 PM) rweait2: Would photos on the pages get merged?
(9:21:44 PM) JonathanB: No -- all content from the nuked page goes
(9:22:07 PM) harry-wood: yeah "all other content from duplicate pages such as wall posts and photos will be lost and permanently deleted."
(9:22:10 PM) rweait2: Steve's got some archival photos from Image of the week.
(9:22:23 PM) rweait2: we can get those back if we need them, I guess.
(9:22:37 PM) rweait2: We should check to see if anything there is unique, first.
(9:23:24 PM) JonathanB: They all appear to be from 2006
(9:23:41 PM) rweait2: Anything more on FB pages before we move along? Anything pressing?
(9:24:09 PM) JonathanB: Just to say that user Robotnic hasn't responded to my approach re: the openstreetmap username on FB
(9:24:24 PM) rweait2: Has it been a full week yet?
(9:24:42 PM) JonathanB: As of today.
(9:25:07 PM) JonathanB: Frederik Ramm had some information that he goes off on long holidays to Thailand
(9:25:10 PM) rweait2: Should we put out a community APB for that user?
(9:25:17 PM) JonathanB: That could just be a vicious slur, though
(9:25:35 PM) rweait2: Hah. I hear thailand has nice beaches.
(9:25:43 PM) rweait2: give it another week?
(9:25:50 PM) JonathanB: Yep, sure.
(9:25:56 PM) harry-wood: His name has come up a few times over the years. Long time OSMer. I'm sure he'll be happy to help when we can get hold of him
(9:25:57 PM) RichardF: +1
(9:26:32 PM) rweait2: Next topic, has everybody noticed how amazing harry-wood's Baseball project is?
(9:26:46 PM) rweait2: bravo, harry-wood.
(9:26:52 PM) harry-wood: we know *you've* noticed. You're winning!
(9:27:02 PM) RichardF: definitely amazing.
(9:27:04 PM) ***rweait2 says it's not a competition.
(9:27:11 PM) JonathanB: harry-wood: Next, rugby pitches.
(9:27:40 PM) harry-wood: We missed the rugby world cup though hey?
(9:27:45 PM) rweait2: in, what, three days, we've added almost 5k new baseball diamonds, from a starting 14k.
(9:27:56 PM) RichardF: I think we can do much more along the same lines in the future... but that's for another time
(9:27:57 PM) rweait2: So 33% increase.
(9:28:10 PM) rweait2: yup. Be nice to see more of them in future.
(9:28:40 PM) RichardF: there's an argument to say that "directed wikifiddling" would be very beneficial on a massive scale
(9:28:47 PM) rweait2: There are rumours of long-idle mappers returning to map diamonds. That's pretty cool. New users too.
(9:28:57 PM) harry-wood: There's still time to blast out promotion for this project. 10 days to go
(9:29:18 PM) rweait2: I sent out a press release today to a guy who specializes in maps for news.
(9:29:28 PM) rweait2: no reply yet. :-(
(9:29:41 PM) harry-wood: I submitted it to slashdot
(9:29:59 PM) harry-wood: and to wikipedia "signpost" weekly newsletter
(9:30:24 PM) rweait2: Does CWG need to take any action on this? Just keep this sort of project in our back pocket to encourage in future?
(9:31:45 PM) RichardF: we should perhaps quietly monitor take-up to see whether it's worth extending in the future
(9:32:06 PM) harry-wood: no reply here either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions#Suggestion:_OpenStreetMap_Big_Baseball_Project
(9:32:44 PM) rweait2: harry-wood, does BBP use the new OSM pwiki analytics?
(9:33:07 PM) harry-wood: no
(9:33:10 PM) JonathanB: If people like mapping themes, can we do something with Shaun's bike shop locator -- could CWG approach some external body to get lists of possible locations that need hunting down and mapping in OSM?
(9:33:33 PM) JonathanB: e.g. National Trust?
(9:33:41 PM) rweait2: en, sounds like a community task.
(9:34:10 PM) harry-wood: The other similar tool along these lines is the new HOT tasking server
(9:34:31 PM) harry-wood: which is actually perfectly well applicable to non-humanitarian mapping
(9:34:43 PM) rweait2: What doe sit do?
(9:35:05 PM) harry-wood: divides an area into squares, and coordinates
(9:35:15 PM) harry-wood: so allowing you to pick a random square and lock it
(9:35:22 PM) harry-wood: so you're working on that "task"
(9:35:35 PM) JonathanB: Ah, not quite the same thing as BSL
(9:35:48 PM) rweait2: Automating the cake slice thing?
(9:36:14 PM) harry-wood: yeah and just the idea of presenting micro tasks
(9:36:30 PM) rweait2: cool.
(9:36:41 PM) harry-wood: there's more technical work to do on these things to make them super-effective, but quite a few ideas coming together now
(9:37:24 PM) rweait2: wait and watch, then?
(9:37:30 PM) harry-wood: From a CWG point of view, I think the question is how can we be better at doing press releases
(9:38:02 PM) JonathanB: Better as in more diligent at producing them?
(9:38:16 PM) RichardF: we need to find reasons beyond "improve OSM coverage"
(9:38:53 PM) RichardF: "save lives in Haiti" is compelling. "make the map 0.0000000% more complete" less so :)
(9:39:17 PM) RichardF: haha, I missed the 1. idiot.
(9:39:33 PM) harry-wood: hehe.
(9:39:45 PM) rweait2: once those additional releases are crafted, they still have to get into the hands of the press.
(9:39:56 PM) rweait2: Preferably press who care.
(9:40:02 PM) harry-wood: I'm thinking there's tricks of the trade we must be missing in terms of publishing press releases in the right places
(9:40:17 PM) JonathanB: That just takes research
(9:40:24 PM) JonathanB: No "tricks" as such
(9:41:01 PM) JonathanB: Hacks are overloaded with releases, so you need to target specific ones who are likely to cover OSM stuff.
(9:41:17 PM) JonathanB: Or alternatively, if there's a local angle, contact the local press
(9:41:17 PM) RichardF: yep.
(9:41:44 PM) RichardF: or the specialist press... lead times permitting
(9:42:29 PM) rweait2: How do we get the wider community involved in finding interested press?
(9:42:55 PM) JonathanB: I'm not sure that's the best way of approaching the problem.
(9:43:30 PM) JonathanB: People who don't work in the media still tend to have a "send it to as many press as possible" approach, and our members will be no different.
(9:44:06 PM) rweait2: We've a limited number who have offered themselves as press contacts. Perhaps start with them?
(9:46:32 PM) harry-wood: Does it make sense to have database of email addresses for people we've found in the press who we can send outpress releases to? could be CWG job to manage that kind of thing
(9:46:49 PM) rweait2: Sure.
(9:46:58 PM) rweait2: crowd-source, but filter?
(9:47:23 PM) rweait2: perhaps offer a "add yourself to the OSM PR list" link?
(9:47:26 PM) JonathanB: As long as the crowdsourcing is done in an intelligent way
(9:47:57 PM) JonathanB: The work would need to involve some kind of "why do you think this journalist would be interested in OSM" test.
(9:48:55 PM) rweait2: We could put DirectionsMag on the list, I suppose
(9:49:08 PM) JonathanB: I think Twitter is probably as good a tool for reaching hacks as any these days.
(9:49:36 PM) harry-wood: yeah, and so when I say this database could managed by CWG... I mean behind closed doors. Rather than publishing a contact list somewhere, we manage how stuff gets sent out ourselves
(9:49:39 PM) rweait2: Fair enough. I could send out a note for press-folk.
(9:49:52 PM) RichardF: yep. we could even do @osm_press, but maybe @openstreetmap is enough...
(9:50:07 PM) rweait2: Where should we keep this private access list?
(9:50:29 PM) harry-wood: google spreadsheet
(9:50:32 PM) rweait2: Somebody want to take lead on this for further discussion next week?
(9:50:43 PM) rweait2: we're down to ten minutes.
(9:51:21 PM) rweait2: Any feedback on other issues from last week?
(9:51:25 PM) harry-wood: I can put together a spreadsheet idea
(9:51:41 PM) harry-wood: the other thing we talked about last time was Tile Abuse
(9:51:51 PM) rweait2: We have management group, finances, tile policy and scrapers. :-)
(9:52:11 PM) rweait2: I like RichardF's tile policy clarifications.
(9:52:26 PM) RichardF: \o/
(9:52:32 PM) harry-wood: I think there's been some more public discussion of the changes already
(9:52:33 PM) rweait2: And I have a rough draft of a blog post about tile policy. http://pastebin.com/muCi0qLM
(9:52:47 PM) rweait2: harry-wood, how is the reaction?
(9:54:15 PM) RichardF: rweait2: that's nicely written - I like. (Though "affected" not "effected" :) )
(9:54:20 PM) harry-wood: think i saw a discussion on IRC.
(9:54:40 PM) rweait2: RichardF: thank you.
(9:54:48 PM) RichardF: oh that was Ian D getting slightly the wrong end of the stick, I think
(9:55:44 PM) JonathanB: Does someone with access to @openstreetmap want to reply to http://twitter.com/chexum/statuses/126021031533088770 ?
(9:56:01 PM) rweait2: That's still just Firefishy, I think.
(9:56:33 PM) harry-wood: and RichardF no?
(9:57:15 PM) RichardF: any of you lovely people here can have access if you ask me for the password!
(9:58:35 PM) harry-wood: ok. maybe we should share the password around a bit. But a collaboration tool would be a good idea some time too
(9:59:07 PM) ***RichardF replies
(9:59:24 PM) harry-wood: a tool which A) removes the need to share the password B) has some kind of question answering collaboration features
(9:59:58 PM) rweait2: collabtweet and hootsuite are the two names I know.
(10:00:14 PM) rweait2: Nothing special for the question answering though (I fear)
(10:00:46 PM) harry-wood: let's chat about that again next time then I guess
(10:00:57 PM) harry-wood: Any other urgent business?
(10:01:02 PM) rweait2: Any news from Management group?
(10:01:34 PM) harry-wood: no I had thought the meeting was rescheduled for a week later, but no. 2 weeks later... which is this Wednesday
(10:02:18 PM) rweait2: okay. We;re we expecting Oliver today?
(10:02:26 PM) rweait2: were*
(10:02:55 PM) RichardF: apologies in advance for next week - will be on holiday
(10:02:59 PM) harry-wood: didn't hear from him either way
(10:03:14 PM) rweait2: So next week. same/same?
(10:03:25 PM) harry-wood: yup sounds good to me
(10:03:33 PM) rweait2: Are we getting to time-change time yet for you guys?
(10:03:44 PM) harry-wood: nearly
(10:03:45 PM) rweait2: Shall we keep to UTC unless otherwise noted?
(10:03:59 PM) JonathanB: Sure
(10:04:37 PM) rweait2: Okay,I'll do another round on the blog post for next week. Email me any advice.
(10:05:12 PM) rweait2: All set to adjourn?
(10:05:16 PM) harry-wood: If you want any pretty pictures representing tiles and tileserving, there's my opentech slide deck
(10:05:26 PM) rweait2: Oh!?!?! Linky?
(10:05:48 PM) harry-wood: although mike mcgurski had an awsome lego photo representing tiles too
(10:06:17 PM) ***rweait2 goes looking for the old box of LEGO.
(10:06:25 PM) harry-wood: http://www.harrywood.co.uk/blog/2011/05/22/openstreetmap-at-opentech-2011/
(10:06:40 PM) ***rweait2 gives up and goes to the toy store. "It's for work, honey!"
(10:06:48 PM) rweait2: Thank you harry-wood.
(10:07:23 PM) rweait2: See you all next week, then?
(10:07:44 PM) JonathanB: I may be absent -- will let you know
(10:07:53 PM) RichardF: not me, but enjoy!
(10:08:23 PM) harry-wood: ok. see you
(10:10:49 PM) harry-wood: the lego image: http://mike.teczno.com/img/sotm11/sotm-piecemeal-geodata.027-001.jpg
(10:10:51 PM) harry-wood: :-)
(10:11:53 PM) rweait2: NIce!
(10:12:45 PM) harry-wood: it's actually by someone else though: http://www.iamcal.com/lego-carcassonne/ not sure of the permissions on that image
(10:13:14 PM) harry-wood: you'd have to ask mike. Lego awesomeness is always good though